Suspension bushings

I agree. You plan on giving them a call by chance and let us know? Other wise I am going to.

I am thinking of replacing all of my springs, they are pretty rough. After all that work to replace the bushing, but I can still use the bushing for new springs, not like I have driven the van...

I have to check them, about 2hrs from the house. I have dealt with them before very expensive Bob

OK, question:

I was going to post a new thread about how to soften the ride of the van... 2nd gen... but perhaps replacing the bushings will result in a more compliant ride? Right now it's kind of punishing. I attribute most of that to the solid front axle, and the leaf springs, and the fact that the seats are perched directly over the front axle, but perhaps it's also because the bushings are old and need to be replaced? Has anyone found that replacing the bushings results in a more compliant ride?

Now that the V8 motor is more sorted out (valve preload plus correct heat riser valve operation), I'm sort of hankering to take it on a longish camping trip. But I might need spinal surgery at the end of it!

New shackle bushings properly compressed with the correct bolts will sort of act like small torsion bars,, but the effect would be short lived I'd think if it's driven a lot.

I have found that running a tire that is more than a rubber band stretched over your wheel and inflated to 35 psi results in a bit of a smoother ride. Tire=cushion. A van that has some weight in it also rides smoother than one that is empty. 2nd gen springs are smoother and the 2nd gen seat is much more comfortable than the 1st gen. Most comfortable Early seat I have used is the late A100 seats. Dont forget to rebuild the spring stack with new pads. Donivan has a thread on this if I remember right.

35 psi? That seems a bit high to me. I think lower tire pressures result in a less jarring ride.

The owner's manual doesn't mention radial tires, but for eight ply bias tires, the recommended tire pressures are 28 front and 36 rear. I've been running 32 lbs front and rear. I might reduce the tire pressure up front to 28 to see how it affects the ride.

Also, going through the old receipts, I recall the previous owner told me he had the front springs re-arced. Some new half-bushings were installed then, along with spacers. As I recall, I think he said he had the springs made flatter, I guess to lower the front end. He also quickened the steering with different caster wedges. Unfortunately the old wedges have disappeared - I only have one. I believe the new ones are thinner.

The flatter springs probably could account for the stiffer ride up front. I presume he made that change because he wanted to level out the ride when he was transporting his racing motorcycle in the van. Or maybe it had something to do with the changed caster.

I have noticed some squeaking from the right front spring rear mount. I have found that spray chain lube works to quiet that down... the modern lubes being rubber-friendly, I suppose.

Front springs are stock width, three inches.

There are three leaves in each front spring.

The front springs are not flat... just presumably not as curved as stock.

As I understand it, the previous owner wished to compensate for the longer wheelbase of the 108 to make it steer more like the short wheelbase van. Hence the modified caster. I don't know what the current caster setting is, although I'm planning on having the front end alignment checked and corrected if necessary. The place I'm planning on bringing it can tell me all the settings (including rear end alignment). Also the steering wheel doesn't point straight, so that needs to be addressed. Ah, and the steering wheel is also reduced diameter (not stock), another reason I suppose for wanting to quicken up the caster. I am not planning on changing the front caster setting, though. It is rather nimble this way, but not overly so. A little twitchy in strong side winds, though. Although that could be the steering gear in need of a bit of tightening.

Here's what the work order for the spring work says (From April 2000):

(F&R) 2/1/2 x 2 leaf springs
Spring(s) reset each 4 qty
2 1/4"-2/1/2" Dissassembly & Assy 4 qty
Remove & Install (2) Springs 2 qty
Rubber half bushing 8 qty p/nHB889
Ubolt(s0 Speical Order 8 qty p/n US91616

Total charges about $750

,,,,work order says they put 2 1/2" aftermarket springs on the van,,,,,,and,,,,,if they put thicker leafs on it, that would surely give you a rougher ride,,,,,,,do you really have the 3" springs?

OK.

The original two leafs, 3" wide, are still there. The third leaf is 2.5" wide and is under the original two. Unlike the stock springs, it is of uniform thickness (.375") and ends about five or six inches from each end of the original springs.

This accounts for the need for different U-bolts to hold it all together, I suppose.

I'm thinking also the original springs were not re-arced, and the extra leafs were added to stiffen and raise up the front end. As you know the shocks up front are attched to the top of the wheel wells and probably air shocks or helper springs there would not be a very good idea.

At this point I might have to contact the original owner to clarify the purpose of the front suspension work so I could determine what I could do to make it more compliant. Such as simply remove the helper leaf and get new U-bolts as needed.

14 leafs? Why, God, Why?

 

,,,,,,,now thats a question for Vanish,,,,,,,,

OK, I got tired of all the squeaking from the front end. It was getting to be quite a chorus at low speeds. Just getting out of the van after a half hour of freeway elicited a racket from the suspension. I had tried spraying a water based silicone lube (LPS) but it only quieted them down for a day or so. So I did some research and found that synthetic disk brake grease is non-petroleum based and OK for rubber.

I took apart the front springs - just at the front mount on both. Because that's where all the noise was coming from. There was a little cracking around the outer edge of the bushings, but the center metal spacer tube in each bushing was in there solid, and the rubber still had some give to it.

Anyway, I pulled the bolts, slathered on the CRC disk brake lube, and also dosed the inside of the front spring mount and the exposed portion of the rubber bushing.

Voila, upon reassembly the thing was a whole heck of a lot quieter up front. There's still some noise, but I figure it's probably from the rear shackles on the front springs.

Now, in my reading I discovered a difference of opinion as to what is supposed to move against what. With 75 ft lbs of torque on the front eyelet bolts, I would imagine the center tubes are pretty solidly held in place. And yet the bolts showed signs of rubbing inside the tubes. Go figure. Anyway they're well lubed now. Some pundits feel that there is some movement between the bolts and the tubes, and the tubes and the bushings. I guess that could happen too.

Oh, by the way, I measured the bolts and they are 1/2" diameter. The bushings are 1" OD. I recovered the invoice from US Spring Service in Emeryville, CA, that did the original work on this van back in 1999. They specify the bushings as HB889, which match the dimensions I measured. They used eight, so I'm assuming that they R&R'd both ends of the front springs. They didn't appear to touch the rear springs, although that might be on a different invoice that I don't have.

Anyway, I'll be ordering up some HB889's from SD or wherever because I figure it would be a good idea to renew the bushings at some point, and they are not that expensive. Also want to be prepared in the event that the CRC brake lube is not so rubber friendly after all.

Also the service manual shows a special tool that is used to remove the bushings from the eyelets. I figure I could probably fab something similar up, so that bushing replacement could be done with the springs still attached to the axle. It's sort of like a bearing puller, but of course it's dimensioned to fit over and inside the eyelet. I'll have to ponder the illustration in the service manual to figure out exactly how its supposed to work.


Right now though I'll lube up the other end of the springs and see how that holds up.

PS-Donny's trick with the small hydraulic jack worked well on the passenger side. It wouldn't fit too well on the driver side, too much in the way, but I was able to use a 2x4 and a shim for that to get the eyelet lined up with the front mount. I also used a wood clamp on the third "helper" leaf to help flatten out the spring to elongate it to line up.

OK, so there are half bushings on the rear shackles for the front springs? Four per spring? Eight for the rear shackles for the front end?

If so, then the spring company never renewed the front bushings... how odd...

But I did measure them. The bolts are 1/2" dia. The ID on the inner sleeves are 1/2" dia. The OD of the bushings is 1". The ID of the eyelets (in front, at least) is 1". Presumably the same in the rear, because that's where the 8 HB889's went.

So what's the cartridge number for the front 1" ID eyelets?

Yes, again, the springs on mine are 3" wide.

It's possible I don't have all the invoices for all the previous suspension work done by previous owner. However the invoice clearly states HB889 bushings - eight of them.

As for the front eyelets, it's possible I measured the ID of the outer sleeve instead of the OD of the outer sleeve. I don't think so, but then anything is possible. It wasn't until I got it all back together that I figured out the dimensions of the 930's you were posting and thought they were wrong.

Yes, they are cartridges in front. They might be 1-1/8" OD. Too late to tell right now because the springs are back together and unless they start chirping again I'll probably let them be for a bit. I also am rounding up a ball joint installer (harbor freight has a set for reasonable price) before I do more with this. If the rear shackles on the front springs start to sing then I'll drop those and do more measurements.

I take it that the shackle bushings don't have an inner or outer sleeve... correct? Just a thru bolt?

Thanks for the info.

Why five sleeves?

And I gather you don't use an external sleeve on the front eyelets?