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Fan shroud / motor heating on highway

marco_chevy
marco_chevy

Number of posts : 127
Location : quebec
Registration date : 2015-05-23

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Post by marco_chevy on Sat Dec 01, 2018 5:05 am

Hi. I read some post and i think my heating problem is the result of having no fan shroud .

I have à 69 v8 307. When bought it , it have a strang shroud fan whit à fan on thé water pump. I remove all that and installed a 18’’ électric fan . Work fine everywhere except on highway at 60-70 mph after 15-20 min , temp go To 195-200 when outside temps is about 28-30 deg. When its about 20 , it run cooler. Thermostat is new 180 . If after highway , i need To go slowly and hide a something ( need more power ) , temp can go To 205-210 whit the electric fan on .

Il chek 2-3 différent timing and change nothing.

I re installed thé water pump fan , and little bit better , but run at 195 on highway after 20-30 min at 70 mph .

So its possible that only thé fan shroud would Yelp ? It Will force the air To Pass trough the rad ?

Where i can get thé right shroud fan ?
samsvan
samsvan

Number of posts : 627
Location : Sarasota, Fl.
Age : 56
Registration date : 2014-09-04

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Post by samsvan on Sat Dec 01, 2018 5:59 am

http://vintage-vans.forumotion.com/t33555p25-keeping-a-v-8-conversion-cool

I found this thread while dealing with my own cooling issues. A lot of great information. From my own experience, the quality of your electric fan makes a difference and a fan shroud would too.
marco_chevy
marco_chevy

Number of posts : 127
Location : quebec
Registration date : 2015-05-23

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Post by marco_chevy on Sat Dec 01, 2018 6:59 am

I Chek the cfm of my electric fan ( proform 67016 whit control 69599 )  its only a 2100 cfm , but now i have electric and water pump fan and problèm still the same.   Its why i think the shroud can be the solution !

My electric fan 16’ is in middle of rad , so it not cover all area !   Both fan pull air from rad and push it on the motor .

The shrould would Protec Also me against the fan Smile.  Rad was recored 3-4 years ago by last owner

Or i change rad and fan for a kit

Fan shroud  / motor heating on highway A3516e10
Skulptorchaz
Skulptorchaz

Number of posts : 301
Location : So. East Indiana
Registration date : 2015-05-08

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Post by Skulptorchaz on Tue Dec 04, 2018 7:21 am

I swapped over from a 194 in-line to a 292 in-line and also had heating issues. The one thing that helped the most was a belly pan I fabbed. It helps the most at highway speeds.
But, as far as electric fans, I run two. I could cover more of the radiator. I put them at the inlet and outlet of the radiator, and definitely on the engine side.
I put one on the ignition switch and one on a thermostat, hard wired to the battery so it runs after the engine is turns off to get the heat out of the dog house (as well as gas fumes).
YMMV.
marco_chevy
marco_chevy

Number of posts : 127
Location : quebec
Registration date : 2015-05-23

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Post by marco_chevy on Tue Dec 04, 2018 7:41 am

I have the direct fan and electric fan whit thermostat , connected to swich but i let key on 1-2 min alter turn off motor. It help for heat and vapor. Start better after 5-10 min Smile

I have the original belly pan but maybe it is mot very powerfull.
Digz
Digz

Number of posts : 3774
Location : United States Six Lakes MI
Registration date : 2008-05-17

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Post by Digz on Wed Dec 05, 2018 4:27 am

Not knowing what you have for a radiator I would suggest getting that checked out for any possible plugging from corrosion. Going slow the electric fan by itself really should keep it cool enough. Speeds above 45mph it should run cool enough with its own airflow pretty much. Is it a down flow radiator or a cross flow?
marco_chevy
marco_chevy

Number of posts : 127
Location : quebec
Registration date : 2015-05-23

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Post by marco_chevy on Wed Dec 05, 2018 5:50 am

Downflow or cross flow ?   I dont know. It was rebuilt 4-5 years ago buy the last owner, i have an invoice or 260$ for that.  I think its like original !

When going slow, no problem. Idle, no problem.  Only when go about 2500-3000 rpm more than 15-20 min , i can see temp go to 190-195 and thermostat is 180 .  Its like no wind pass trough radiator

When outside amp is under 25 , all is ok . I see that trouble when it’s 28 and more whit big sun .
Digz
Digz

Number of posts : 3774
Location : United States Six Lakes MI
Registration date : 2008-05-17

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Post by Digz on Fri Dec 07, 2018 5:17 am

Think I will go along with needing the right fan shroud like you say. 190-195 isn't bad as long as it doesn't get much higher than that. My proform fans seems to have a lifespan of 4 years . Need to change mine out before spring. I'm on my 3rd one .
Skulptorchaz
Skulptorchaz

Number of posts : 301
Location : So. East Indiana
Registration date : 2015-05-08

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Post by Skulptorchaz on Fri Dec 07, 2018 6:28 am

Just to be sure, the electric fan is on the "motor side" of the radiator, correct? I kind of assume it is but not sure I read it. That is important.
Why I ask is because altho I am running a big six, I could not fit a big fan in the center of the radiator. It hit the pump. I don't know how they fit on an eight. So I used two smaller fans and they cover more radiator to boot.
Anyway, just checkin. Hope ya get it figured out.
marco_chevy
marco_chevy

Number of posts : 127
Location : quebec
Registration date : 2015-05-23

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Post by marco_chevy on Fri Dec 07, 2018 9:00 am

Yes. Fan is motor side. Its about 1/2’’ of the water pump pully
donivan65
donivan65
Governor
Governor

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Location : San Diego, California
Registration date : 2008-05-12

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Post by donivan65 on Fri Dec 07, 2018 10:14 pm

Do you have the stock, 4 row of tubes, crossflow radiator with the surge tank, fan clutch, and shroud?     Maybe get a heat gun and shoot the radiator to see if there are clogged up tubes,,,,,,also get the radiator sniff tested to see if there are head or head gasket problems,,,,,



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marco_chevy
marco_chevy

Number of posts : 127
Location : quebec
Registration date : 2015-05-23

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Post by marco_chevy on Sat Dec 08, 2018 5:11 am

I have the cilinder tink on the top of rad like pucture .its really look like the pic! I dont have the fan clutch , and dont have the shroud. What you mean by 4 row of tube ? I think head or gasket are good because level is always ok , color is ok too, no overflow, no smell !

I was thinking that was a timing problem .

So I run at idle 2 btdc ( like I see in manual ), total timing ( vac on ) at 2500 of 36 , at 3000 , 38
I run idle 4 btdc , total timing at 2500 of 38
I run idle 6 btdc, total timing at 2500 of 40-41

And I can’t see difference on heating. Look the same . But start easier whit hier timing when hot .

I see some post talking of 10-12 idle timing , it will give about 46-48 total timing , it’s really high!

donivan65
donivan65
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Governor

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Post by donivan65 on Sat Dec 08, 2018 3:18 pm

tubes connect the side tanks together,,,,the more rows, the thicker the radiator is,,,,and more tubes mean more cooling fins to cool down the coolant as it goes from the hot thermostat to the cool water pump,,,,,,,another thing,,,,that surge tank holds the radiators coolant,,,,its not an overflow tank,,,,,proper level of coolant is 1 inch below the cap,,,,,
marco_chevy
marco_chevy

Number of posts : 127
Location : quebec
Registration date : 2015-05-23

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Post by marco_chevy on Sat Dec 08, 2018 4:38 pm

1 inch under the cap of the surge tank , when cold ?

Originally , it’s a 2 row radiator ?
sandyvan
sandyvan

Number of posts : 507
Location : San Diego, CA
Registration date : 2011-03-13

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Post by sandyvan on Tue Dec 11, 2018 3:55 pm

Water jackets in block plugged up? Can't a person flush the block after removing freeze plugs? Just guessing...

I have a very recently rebuilt 307 in my 69 G20 108. factory fan shroud, fan on water pump but no fan clutch. When I had the stock radiator out for the engine swap I flushed it good with a garden hose till it ran clear. it does not leak (I got lucky on that). I run at 185-195.
marco_chevy
marco_chevy

Number of posts : 127
Location : quebec
Registration date : 2015-05-23

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Post by marco_chevy on Mon Dec 17, 2018 9:34 am

Possible that the water pump is ok at low rpm and dont work fine at 2500-3000 rpm ?

Possible that I miss little bit water and when run 2500-3000 rpm, the sensor don’t touch water ?

Where is the best place for the sensor ?
marco_chevy
marco_chevy

Number of posts : 127
Location : quebec
Registration date : 2015-05-23

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Post by marco_chevy on Sat Dec 22, 2018 7:22 am

Some anser for me ? Smile)
Digz
Digz

Number of posts : 3774
Location : United States Six Lakes MI
Registration date : 2008-05-17

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Post by Digz on Sun Dec 23, 2018 6:13 pm

The temp guage I have installed in the water jacket above the starter. Fan switch at the front of the intake left of the gooseneck.
marco_chevy
marco_chevy

Number of posts : 127
Location : quebec
Registration date : 2015-05-23

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Post by marco_chevy on Sun Dec 23, 2018 6:49 pm

It’s possible that the water pump is used and don’t give lot of flow at 2500-3000 rpm ?

Fan switch sensor need to be in the rad near the return . If temps is too high at the return , fan will start , i see that somewhere Smile
Digz
Digz

Number of posts : 3774
Location : United States Six Lakes MI
Registration date : 2008-05-17

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Post by Digz on Tue Dec 25, 2018 6:15 pm

I haven't seen an exact science on the fan sensor yet. Some just clip to the fins on the radiator.
I think DeRale markets an adjustable one also.
If you have a 2 row radiator with narrow cores it might be an issue itself. Most aftermarket aluminum 2 rows have 3/4" to 1" cores. Donivan mentioned a 4 row. From what I have read a Sportvan would have 3 or 4 rows in a stock setup.
marco_chevy
marco_chevy

Number of posts : 127
Location : quebec
Registration date : 2015-05-23

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Post by marco_chevy on Tue Dec 25, 2018 9:02 pm

i chek water Pump and run free , easy to
Turn in both sens .

Water level was 2’’ under the cap in the upper tank, so I have about 1 litre ! It can change something ?
It test-32 whit my gauge , about 50/50.

It’s the original rad that was refresh 4-5 years ago and about 2000 miles ! Original is a 2 row ?

marco_chevy
marco_chevy

Number of posts : 127
Location : quebec
Registration date : 2015-05-23

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Post by marco_chevy on Wed Dec 26, 2018 10:34 am

I chek the bottom hose between pump and rad , and I don’t have the spring inside . Possible that the hose block coolan at 2500-3000 rpm ?
SteelyVan
SteelyVan

Number of posts : 91
Location : State College, Pa.
Registration date : 2009-08-14

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Post by SteelyVan on Wed Dec 26, 2018 1:06 pm

marco_chevy wrote:I chek the bottom hose between pump and rad , and I don’t have the spring inside .  Possible that the hose block coolan at 2500-3000 rpm ?

This very well might/could be your issue! Get a passenger to observe the lower hose while you're pulling highway speeds. BTDT
marco_chevy
marco_chevy

Number of posts : 127
Location : quebec
Registration date : 2015-05-23

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Post by marco_chevy on Wed Dec 26, 2018 1:32 pm

AT high rpm , the pump pull on the coolan of that hose and maybe the hose deform and coolan have difficulty to circulate ? I saw that on an other web site .  I can easy collapse the hose whit my finger.  Only the bottom have vacuum ? The upper have positive pression ?

Need that one ?

We are winter here now. I can’t run the van. I just want to resolve problem before summer. But I see 2-3 post whit 307 and the problem was the bottom radiator hose that collapsed at high rpm. And mine is very smooth.

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SteelyVan
SteelyVan

Number of posts : 91
Location : State College, Pa.
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Post by SteelyVan on Wed Dec 26, 2018 6:11 pm

You are correct in the general theory of negative pressure in the bottom rad hose (especially at high RPM). Buy the one with the spring/wire inside and try it. It never hurts to have spare hoses.

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