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BRINGING IT ALL TOGETHER.... A's, G's & E's


5 posters

    Has anyone rigged a hybrid a/c system? Electric compressor + plug in?

    nyc108hopeful
    nyc108hopeful


    Number of posts : 95
    Location : South Kingstown, RI
    Registration date : 2018-05-14

    Has anyone rigged a hybrid a/c system? Electric compressor + plug in? Empty Has anyone rigged a hybrid a/c system? Electric compressor + plug in?

    Post by nyc108hopeful Sun Jul 08, 2018 9:42 pm

    Prius has several variants but very high voltage.

    Telsa uses them.

    12v variants now exist
    https://www.seanhylandmotorsport.com/blog/12-v-air-conditioning-compressor-how-can-you-decide-if-one-is-right-for-you/


    Has anyone figured out a way with inverters, mult batteries, dual alternators(while engine runs), or whatever to be able to run a system like normal while running and be able to continue running it while parked and plugged in via extension cord?  That would mean having the juice to run the condenser fans as well.

    nyc108hopeful
    nyc108hopeful


    Number of posts : 95
    Location : South Kingstown, RI
    Registration date : 2018-05-14

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    Post by nyc108hopeful Sun Jul 08, 2018 10:28 pm



    some progress using a 240V 3phase VFD
    Seth G
    Seth G
    Vintage-Vans Listings Manager
    Vintage-Vans Listings Manager


    Number of posts : 2086
    Location : Anacortes, WA
    Age : 50
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    Post by Seth G Mon Jul 09, 2018 9:02 pm

    How are you powering the VFD?
    nyc108hopeful
    nyc108hopeful


    Number of posts : 95
    Location : South Kingstown, RI
    Registration date : 2018-05-14

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    Post by nyc108hopeful Mon Jul 09, 2018 10:06 pm

    Had a discussion with the videos author and there have since been advances and products that are starting to come out that could work.

    https://www.peakrv.com/12v-dc-air-conditioner/22-benling-12v-dc-ac-compressor-7300-btuhr-dm18a7.html

    yes it is a safe site when it ask

    you can also google DM18A7 compressor

    I will keep you posted as the conversation evolves

    The nice thing about the Prius unit would have been low cost remanufactured units.





    in regards to the video

    To everyone that wanted to know what I used to drive the compressor.  A simple 240V 3phase VFD....  I'm letting the secret out as it's no longer economically viable to continue to try to develop this to something of commercial value.

    Its taken this long to get the this stage due to life getting in the way.  There are now compressors available that do all what I managed to achieve in a very small foot print for a lot less.  I am currently in the process of importing these so for anyone that maybe interested in these reply to this comment and I'll PM you an email address.
    nyc108hopeful
    nyc108hopeful


    Number of posts : 95
    Location : South Kingstown, RI
    Registration date : 2018-05-14

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    Post by nyc108hopeful Tue Jul 10, 2018 3:03 pm

    Had more discussions today and there are some real possibilities but none of them are cheap.

    Compressor on asian sites seems to run $300-$500

    You need a lot of power at idle so you would need a special alternator $500
    http://www.qualitypowerauto.com/item_557/Chrysler-Mount-Mega-Amp-Alternator.htm

    To run it without being plugged in you are going to need some serious and heavy deep cycle batteries so figure $600-$1000

    Essentially it seems you would need to spend 2x-4x vs the normal components to be able to pull up to a scenic spot, turn the engine off, and have lunch and a nap in the cool a/c assuming you heat treated the van to begin with. That said with plug in power you could have a mini RV without needing to be a full RV.

    I guess the question would be is the extra $2000+ over the normal cost of the a/c system be worth it.
    Barnabas
    Barnabas
    Vintage-Vans Listings Manager
    Vintage-Vans Listings Manager


    Number of posts : 2011
    Location : Raleigh, NC
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    Post by Barnabas Tue Jul 10, 2018 6:30 pm

    Converting mechanical energy to electrical energy and back to mechanical energy might incur some loss of energy to heat. IMHO, An old fashioned mechanical compressor would be best.

    If you want 120V AC as well when parked, get a separate tiny window unit.

    Cost wise you would be way ahead this way and be able to use off-the shelf components.

    Keep thinking outside the box though. If we can just get congress to repeal some of the laws of physics, we might be able to do what you suggest. Very Happy
    nyc108hopeful
    nyc108hopeful


    Number of posts : 95
    Location : South Kingstown, RI
    Registration date : 2018-05-14

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    Post by nyc108hopeful Tue Jul 10, 2018 6:47 pm

    Barnabas wrote:Converting mechanical energy to electrical energy and back to mechanical energy might incur some loss of energy to heat.  IMHO, An old fashioned mechanical compressor would be best.

    If you want 120V AC as well when parked, get a separate tiny window unit.

    Cost wise you would be way ahead this way and be able to use off-the shelf components.

    Keep thinking outside the box though. If we can just get congress to repeal some of the laws of physics, we might be able to do what you suggest.  Very Happy

    Totally....the build would be tricky and expensive and could basically be accomplished by a regular car a/c and a small window unit for $150 but come on what fun is that.
    SteelyVan
    SteelyVan


    Number of posts : 112
    Location : State College, Pa.
    Registration date : 2009-08-14

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    Post by SteelyVan Tue Jul 10, 2018 7:42 pm

    Has anyone rigged a hybrid a/c system? Electric compressor + plug in? 10cbc810

    No disrespect to any Arkansas vanners.

    I'm posting this to make fun of myself...... because I have been down this AC road for years trying to think of a better mousetrap. When $$ becomes a limiting factor, the above example always wins the prize.
    AzDon
    AzDon


    Number of posts : 741
    Location : Lake Havasu Az
    Age : 67
    Registration date : 2014-01-20

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    Post by AzDon Wed Jul 18, 2018 6:03 pm

    Is it possible to run a small "window A/C" off of an invertor? Would it require a dedicated second alternator?
    I'm going to run a 454 with serpentine belt in my 69 and no P/S pump or smog pump, so I could probably fit a second alternator and even a third alternator in place of the A/C compressor, if I could go all electric......

    nyc108hopeful
    nyc108hopeful


    Number of posts : 95
    Location : South Kingstown, RI
    Registration date : 2018-05-14

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    Post by nyc108hopeful Wed Jul 18, 2018 6:22 pm

    AzDon wrote:Is it possible to run a small "window A/C" off of an invertor? Would it require a dedicated second alternator?
    I'm going to run a 454 with serpentine belt in my 69 and no P/S pump or smog pump, so I could probably fit a second alternator and even a third alternator in place of the A/C compressor, if I could go all electric......


    It is possible and there are youtube vids to prove it. But a 5000btu window unit wont blow the same as a car system. You would also need either a high power or mult alternators and good batteries.

    For me the issue is then you have to use a window and create a proper mount for a subpar a/c.

    If money was no issues a mix of a normal auto and and the option to use an electric compressor would be interesting.

    Seth G
    Seth G
    Vintage-Vans Listings Manager
    Vintage-Vans Listings Manager


    Number of posts : 2086
    Location : Anacortes, WA
    Age : 50
    Registration date : 2013-04-24

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    Post by Seth G Wed Jul 18, 2018 6:51 pm

    The way this is done in a boat, esp those that will go offshore, is to use a mechanical compressor on the engine that feeds a cold plate, or 'holding plate' in the ice box. It's filled with propylene glycol and maybe something else and it is super chilled and will hold the box cold for days, esp if the box is top loading. It can also produce ice in vertical ice trays hold on the cold plate. Generally these systems use 404 instead of 134 freon. Obviously this doesn't do much for a/c, but you could imagine a system that would freeze up a custom high volume "air coil"(ie container with holes in it for air to pass through and a freon coil running though it's contents) while you drive and then you'd have ac while you chill out and go to sleep for the night. All you'd need the extra battery for you be the fan. It wouldn't dehumidify much but it would cool the air.
    AzDon
    AzDon


    Number of posts : 741
    Location : Lake Havasu Az
    Age : 67
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    Post by AzDon Thu Jul 19, 2018 7:34 am

    A window A/C unit cools a way bigger area than an automotive system does..... And would give you the option of "plugging in" to 110v when parked...….My question is simply: Can strong enough 120vac electricity be generated on board to run it while the engine is running?......We kinda scratched the surface in this thread, but not sure anybody actually put any of it into action...https://vintage-vans.forumotion.com/t53794-air-conditioning-idea-could-it-work?highlight=air+conditioning
    nyc108hopeful
    nyc108hopeful


    Number of posts : 95
    Location : South Kingstown, RI
    Registration date : 2018-05-14

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    Post by nyc108hopeful Thu Jul 19, 2018 7:50 am

    AzDon wrote:A window A/C unit cools a way bigger area than an automotive system does..... And would give you the option of "plugging in" to 110v when parked...….My question is simply: Can strong enough 120vac electricity be generated on board to run it while the engine is running?......We kinda scratched the surface in this thread, but not sure anybody actually put any of it into action...https://vintage-vans.forumotion.com/t53794-air-conditioning-idea-could-it-work?highlight=air+conditioning


    It does cool a bigger space but that space is usually fully insulated and even the glass is different. There are varying numbers but the btus on a car system is supposedly multiples of a small window unit.

    As to the power question there are already vids showing it being done. You probably need a 3k-4k PURE sine wave converter to handle the spike when the compressor turns on and a high quality battery. People have run it with less.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brriqxQ-xPg

    Alternator amount needed depends on the other stuff you run. Here is a super hi power alternator I found
    http://www.qualitypowerauto.com/item_557/Chrysler-Mount-Mega-Amp-Alternator.htm

    5000btu = 1460 watts using this calculator

    https://www.rapidtables.com/convert/power/BTU_to_Watt.html


    At idle the 180a is worth 2160 watts so with other stuff running you better have a good battery if you run into a long traffic jam or give the engine some gas.


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