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Suspension / steering questions

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samsvan

Number of posts : 564
Location : Sarasota, Fl.
Age : 55
Registration date : 2014-09-04

Suspension / steering questions

Post by samsvan on Fri Dec 30, 2016 12:22 pm

If you look at my build thread, we lowered my van by raising the leaf spring and shackle perches. Now that I've had a chance to drive it, there are two issues. First, I now know what bump steer is but I don't know what to do about it. And second, I guess the shop never checked clearances with the van sitting down on the ground. The problem is the tie rod is right underneath the engine crossmember so any bump makes it hit. To be able to drive it, I added helper leafs to bring the front end up a couple of inches but I want to get it back down. I'm looking for some replacement tie rod ends with either a lateral or downward bend in them that will work. I think the ends are 5/8" x 18 thread but I don't know about the ball joint end. I found some for a 2010 Jeep Wrangler that do have a lateral bend in them but I don't know if I can swap them in. https://www.moog-suspension-parts.com/moog-es800594
Is there a way to find out if the beveled stud ends will fit into my spindle arms without buying them first?
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m1dadio
Chevy Guru

Number of posts : 1738
Location : Victoria B.C.
Registration date : 2008-10-06

Re: Suspension / steering questions

Post by m1dadio on Fri Dec 30, 2016 11:52 pm

Tie rod ends
If you learn how to manipulate the NAPA web site you can look up the part there and get to a technical page that has measurements of the parts.

Those offset tie rods can only be used where there is an idler are to support the rod from trying to rotate as it moves left and right.
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samsvan

Number of posts : 564
Location : Sarasota, Fl.
Age : 55
Registration date : 2014-09-04

Re: Suspension / steering questions

Post by samsvan on Sat Dec 31, 2016 10:19 am

I didn't have any luck with the NAPA site so I took another look at the situation. Taking into account that when the suspension is compressed, the axle and tie rod moves back and also when the steering is turned, it moves one side of the tie rod back, I still only need the tie rod to move about 1/2" towards the front of the van to clear the crossmember.
With the offset tie rod ends, you say that the rod wants to rotate when I steer. Is that from torque created by the resistance/friction of the tires on the road or are you saying that just the weight of the rod being off center would cause problems over time?
With all the guys that have done axle flips and removed leafs, someone must have run into this before.
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samsvan

Number of posts : 564
Location : Sarasota, Fl.
Age : 55
Registration date : 2014-09-04

Re: Suspension / steering questions

Post by samsvan on Sat Dec 31, 2016 2:32 pm

Here's a picture of how it sits with the helper leafs in.
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m1dadio
Chevy Guru

Number of posts : 1738
Location : Victoria B.C.
Registration date : 2008-10-06

Re: Suspension / steering questions

Post by m1dadio on Sat Dec 31, 2016 5:15 pm

When that big tie rod is pushing in a straight line there is no problem. If the tie rods get bent or you install off set the tie rod tries to rotate one way then the other because the steering arms at each end are not ever at the same angle to the tie rod when turning. Its complicated.
You could cut that 3/4" lip off the cross member to make clearance. Probably the cheapest ans easiest cure.

actually looking at the picture maybe that wont work. maybe some bottom out bumpers are in order here?
I notice they are not on your leaf springs




M1D
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samsvan

Number of posts : 564
Location : Sarasota, Fl.
Age : 55
Registration date : 2014-09-04

Re: Suspension / steering questions

Post by samsvan on Sun Jan 01, 2017 6:28 am

So if it's a geometry problem to offset the rod forward, how about downward? Everything should remain parallel. Check out the type 2 rod ends on this site -http://www.truckcomponentsonline.com/TIE-ROD-ENDS.HTML
I think I still have my bottom out bumpers so maybe with those installed and a little extra clearance vertically she won't break the tie rod. I know the threaded end of the ends are 5/8"x18 thread but I don't know about the ball stud. That's what I was trying to find on the NAPA and Moog sites but no luck. I might have to take them out and measure myself.
Thanks for the help Michel and happy new year.
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m1dadio
Chevy Guru

Number of posts : 1738
Location : Victoria B.C.
Registration date : 2008-10-06

Re: Suspension / steering questions

Post by m1dadio on Sun Jan 01, 2017 8:38 pm

from the NAPA site you search the tie rod in question

here is 68 G 10 van
https://www.napaonline.com/napa/en/p/NCZ2692187/NCZ2692187_0224347213

you click on the name "Tie Rod End Outer"

then scroll down to specifications. It give the taper dimensions and all

First look at the tie rod ens for your van so you know what your looking for and can compare that to the other tie rod ends you are considering

the buyers guide link t the bottom shows everthing else that tie rod came on.

m1D
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samsvan

Number of posts : 564
Location : Sarasota, Fl.
Age : 55
Registration date : 2014-09-04

Re: Suspension / steering questions

Post by samsvan on Mon Jan 02, 2017 2:25 pm

Nice work M1! After work today I pulled the helper leafs out of the spring packs. I found the bottom out bumpers and got them in too. So now I have 1.5" from the bottom of the frame to the top of the bumpers. I also have about 1.5" between the tie rod and the crossmember so I guess I need to find tie rod ends with about a 1"-1.5" downward offset to allow for the compression of the bumper?
If I can't find a good match, are these something a machine shop could bend or weld? I don't want to die just yet but thought it was worth asking.
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The second picture shows how perfectly centered the tie rod is on the crossmember - nice huh? The last shot shows I need to move one of my fancy new brake lines now that the bumpers are back in.
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samsvan

Number of posts : 564
Location : Sarasota, Fl.
Age : 55
Registration date : 2014-09-04

Re: Suspension / steering questions

Post by samsvan on Mon Jan 02, 2017 3:58 pm

I found this article.
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/bending-tie-rod-ends.138191/
I'm glad there's guys like you that are smarter than me out there. I guess I'll look at remodeling the crossmember. Rolling Eyes
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samsvan

Number of posts : 564
Location : Sarasota, Fl.
Age : 55
Registration date : 2014-09-04

Re: Suspension / steering questions

Post by samsvan on Fri Jan 13, 2017 12:24 pm

Clearance Clarance! This is what I came up with for the crossmember and how it sits with the helper leafs out. Still have to re-route that brake line.

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m1dadio
Chevy Guru

Number of posts : 1738
Location : Victoria B.C.
Registration date : 2008-10-06

Re: Suspension / steering questions

Post by m1dadio on Fri Jan 13, 2017 9:17 pm

That is a cool van
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AzDon

Number of posts : 346
Location : Lake Havasu Az
Age : 62
Registration date : 2014-01-20

Re: Suspension / steering questions

Post by AzDon on Tue Jul 10, 2018 8:12 pm

I realize this thread is old..... If you added a couple of caster with wedge shims, it would raise the van by half the shim thickness, but would also roll the tie rod away from the crossmember some and make the straight-line tracking better than what you currently have....It looks like you lowered front and rear about equally, so you probably shouldn't add a bunch, but 2 or three degrees would probably be good...

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Re: Suspension / steering questions

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