BRINGING IT ALL TOGETHER.... A's, G's & E's


Vanner in Los Angeles needs help

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whalemstr

Number of posts : 246
Location : Corning, California
Registration date : 2012-06-27

Re: Vanner in Los Angeles needs help

Post by whalemstr on Sat Nov 19, 2016 9:51 pm

I lifted the head and this fell out...


How often does a head gasket fall out and show this?

I am praying that - that is all it is, and there is no more damage!
Will know better tomorrow when hopefully I will be able to get the head off completely.

That is the space between the 5 and 6 pistons...
Bedtime...
later,
dan
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jkr

Number of posts : 1090
Location : prince edward island canada
Age : 59
Registration date : 2008-05-29

Re: Vanner in Los Angeles needs help

Post by jkr on Sun Nov 20, 2016 7:18 am

age can be a factor. but also consider, timing, temperature, and a lean carb condition. memory serves me correct the original gasket would have been a single layer steel piece. do NOT cheap out and put a cheap gasket there. source a good fel-pro or an original if there are aany left in the world. also check the block and head surface with a straight edge. when we replaced them years ago we always coated the new gasket with mopar red spray gasket sealer. don't know if your handy a dodge dealer but try to find some. it helps big time with small scratches and such. good luck.
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whalemstr

Number of posts : 246
Location : Corning, California
Registration date : 2012-06-27

Re: Vanner in Los Angeles needs help

Post by whalemstr on Sun Nov 20, 2016 7:39 am

The whole thing was rebuilt and put together about 13 years ago. I had to put a head gasket in about 9 years ago - and I used a good one according to these boards when I did it then. Did not use any product to hold it in as far as I remember too.

I also used one of those expensive australian IE gaskets, which appears to have developed a few leaks over the years now!

Definitely plan on using good gaskets to put it back together again...

Hopefully, someone that is familiar with setting the timing on this thing will be around to help me when I get to putting it back together, but, as usual, that is always the wildcard in these situations...

More than likely, I will be doing it all myself again and half ass it as usuall because of my lack of "what did he say to do?" <- a.k.a. - slow brain power and low memory retention!!! lol
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donivan65
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Re: Vanner in Los Angeles needs help

Post by donivan65 on Sun Nov 20, 2016 7:59 am

,,,Check the notch on the Harmonic Balancer,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,rotate the balancer until you get #1 piston up to the top,,,,,,put a piece of tape on it so you can mark where 0 is and then chisel, grind or file a notch in it.
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whalemstr

Number of posts : 246
Location : Corning, California
Registration date : 2012-06-27

Re: Vanner in Los Angeles needs help

Post by whalemstr on Sun Nov 20, 2016 8:02 am

donivan65 wrote:,,,Check the notch on the Harmonic Balancer,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,rotate the balancer until you get #1 piston up to the top,,,,,,put a piece of tape on it so you can mark where 0 is and then chisel, grind or file a notch in it.

Will do!!!
Makes total sense at this point too!
I need to make sure exactly where it is again...
Thanks Don...

Now if I just just rememberr who it was that said they weee sending a gasket set my way!!! LOL
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jrinaman

Number of posts : 786
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Registration date : 2011-03-10

Re: Vanner in Los Angeles needs help

Post by jrinaman on Sun Nov 20, 2016 10:50 am

had gaskets fail like that more than once on ford 300's, always between #5 and #6. while it is apart, check the top of block too. had one crack the block between cylinders once and replaced gasket twice before finding it! not likely, but possible and only takes 1 minute to check it now, hours or days if it blows again half way home.
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whalemstr

Number of posts : 246
Location : Corning, California
Registration date : 2012-06-27

Re: Vanner in Los Angeles needs help

Post by whalemstr on Sun Nov 20, 2016 12:03 pm



There is obvious crap between 5 and 6 from the head gasket burn through, but I was able to scrape most of it off with just the fingers of my glove.
I have it sitting with water in the number 6 chamber and it has not moved a drop - and it's been sitting there for at least 10 minutes now.


6 5 4 on the head itself...


3 2 1...


1 and 2 on the head...
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donivan65
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Re: Vanner in Los Angeles needs help

Post by donivan65 on Sun Nov 20, 2016 1:05 pm

a couple of minutes test will let you know if the water leaks past the valve and out the ports on the side,,,,,,,no holes in the pistons is good,,,,,,but warpage sure is a concern,,,,,clean off the head and block, put something flat across the cylinders and check for low spots between it and the head and block with a feeler gauge,,,,I am kind of thinking .003 - .006 with .006 and over, its time for getting the head surfaced,,,,,
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whalemstr

Number of posts : 246
Location : Corning, California
Registration date : 2012-06-27

Re: Vanner in Los Angeles needs help

Post by whalemstr on Sun Nov 20, 2016 1:53 pm

I am heading towards a goal of getting the intake and exhaust manifolds off before I go at the head anymore. I took a paper towel to it and can still read the Felpro head gasket writings on it in spots...

Once I get those apart, I will get myself on to the head clean and check routines...

lol - am draggung ass - - - and if you remember what I look like!!! I don't have any to spare!!! LOL
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whalemstr

Number of posts : 246
Location : Corning, California
Registration date : 2012-06-27

Re: Vanner in Los Angeles needs help

Post by whalemstr on Mon Nov 21, 2016 8:20 am

Started working on using a medium grit emory cloth to clean the color off the head.
After I get the head cleaned, onto cleaning the block and piston tops...
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whalemstr

Number of posts : 246
Location : Corning, California
Registration date : 2012-06-27

Re: Vanner in Los Angeles needs help

Post by whalemstr on Tue Nov 22, 2016 1:48 pm

Just a quick update...

Still cleaning and getting ready to put back together.
Gaskets are on the way!
As near as I can tell, the only thing wrong with it at this point, is the head gasket blew out between 5 and 6. It does not look like there is any warp to anything as far as my limited eyesight and checking can see.
The tops of the pistons are cleaning off with a little carb cleaner on a rag.
I have been using some carb cleaner and a brass brush on the cylinder head tops and the polish is under that crap even! lol

Little at a time...

I did check my IE washers and can not find one of the brass end ones now!
Hoping it is just loose in my tool box somewhere - or will have to resort to washers...

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donivan65
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Re: Vanner in Los Angeles needs help

Post by donivan65 on Tue Nov 22, 2016 2:10 pm

.....you will be doing this all over again another 100 miles down the road if you dont do a good job of checking if the head is warped,,,,,,
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OutofSight

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Re: Vanner in Los Angeles needs help

Post by OutofSight on Tue Nov 22, 2016 2:36 pm

Yep.
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whalemstr

Number of posts : 246
Location : Corning, California
Registration date : 2012-06-27

Re: Vanner in Los Angeles needs help

Post by whalemstr on Tue Nov 22, 2016 3:12 pm

Using a 2' aluminum square, and checking it every which way, I can not find anything that resembles warpage? It is the best I can do at this point...

Hoping and praying...
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OutofSight

Number of posts : 684
Location : Lake Oroville, Ca.
Registration date : 2015-11-19

Re: Vanner in Los Angeles needs help

Post by OutofSight on Tue Nov 22, 2016 3:39 pm

Considering the circumstances, I would call it good.
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whalemstr

Number of posts : 246
Location : Corning, California
Registration date : 2012-06-27

Re: Vanner in Los Angeles needs help

Post by whalemstr on Tue Nov 22, 2016 3:54 pm

I hope, it's the best I can do with what I have available to me right now.
I'm shooting carb cleaner on a rag and slowly working the crap off the block as carefully as I can now too. Get it as clean as I can without getting anything in the motor or down in the piston holes. Wiped the piston walls with some fresh oil to keep them at least with an oil sheen on them.

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vanny
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Re: Vanner in Los Angeles needs help

Post by vanny on Tue Nov 22, 2016 5:20 pm

I'm thinking positive thoughts for you, Dan. I hope it all works out for you!


_________________
The future will soon be a thing of the past."
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donivan65
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Re: Vanner in Los Angeles needs help

Post by donivan65 on Tue Nov 22, 2016 7:38 pm

since that head gasket has blown 2 times on you,,,,,I think you should take it to an engine shop and let them check it for flatness if you aint been checking it with a FEELER GAUGE,,,,,,,especially between #5 and 6 cylinders


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Seth G
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Re: Vanner in Los Angeles needs help

Post by Seth G on Tue Nov 22, 2016 10:45 pm

I agree, now's the time. Any machine shop around will have a true straight edge
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whalemstr

Number of posts : 246
Location : Corning, California
Registration date : 2012-06-27

Re: Vanner in Los Angeles needs help

Post by whalemstr on Wed Nov 23, 2016 6:04 am

Doing exactly what you show in the pic above with a flashlight, I can not see any light coming under the level.

When I take a feeler gauge and try to pass it inder in the same spots, a 0.03 feeler gauge barely makes it part way under and STOPS AND BENDS! If I try using a 0.05 feeler gauge it bangs against the metal and does not go under AT ALL!

I have tried this over and over on various angles and places on the head - I repeat - I have seen nothing that resembles warpage anywhere.

Now if I am unqualified or doing this wrong, then I totally admit I am a huge dufus.
But, at this point, I am pretty sure that I am close to doing this correctly???

If I want to pay someone to tell me this - I need to save a few more dollars and find a shop to haul this thing to and have them check it for me...

Should I find a shop and haul it in to them to check it for me???

Thanks guys...
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whalemstr

Number of posts : 246
Location : Corning, California
Registration date : 2012-06-27

Re: Vanner in Los Angeles needs help

Post by whalemstr on Wed Nov 23, 2016 7:37 am

Here is a picture taken of the 5 and 6 space with the ruler over it.


These are taken using a high power beam flashlight...

This is what the same place looks like if I slip a .003 feeler gauge under it...



I am guessing you can see both the feeler gauge and the light coming under the ruler now...
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Seth G
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Re: Vanner in Los Angeles needs help

Post by Seth G on Wed Nov 23, 2016 9:05 am

I doubt they'd charge you anything. My only concern is that I don't know that I would trust that straight edge to be true to the tolerances needed. It's your call and if you say it's good, then it's good, go for it.
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donivan65
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Number of posts : 11450
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Re: Vanner in Los Angeles needs help

Post by donivan65 on Wed Nov 23, 2016 9:13 am

call a shop,,,,,,,they might do it for free,,,,,its up to you,,,,,,,take a chance,,,,,its REALLY IMPORTANT that the head be flat,,,,,,you are heading for a lot of misery if that head gasket blows again,,,,,,,,,but do what you got to do,,,,,,,,,,
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whalemstr

Number of posts : 246
Location : Corning, California
Registration date : 2012-06-27

Re: Vanner in Los Angeles needs help

Post by whalemstr on Wed Nov 23, 2016 9:18 am

So doing and using the same as the picture you showed me above - is not gonna be good enough?

I will see what I can find for a shop and what they will charge to check it for me.
It will have to wait until after the holiday and when I can get my sister to take time to haul me and said head to the shop... depends on her work schedule...

Thanks guys...
Later...
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donivan65
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Re: Vanner in Los Angeles needs help

Post by donivan65 on Wed Nov 23, 2016 10:26 am

You are taking a big chance,,,,you got a lot to lose if something goes wrong trying to get back home,,,,,a reading of .003 is BAD,,,,,,depending on where on the head it is,,,,,,and how accurate are your readings,,,,,,if you say you can see light under the ruler and a feeler gauge can slip under it, that head is warped,,,,,,but I surely would be getting a machinists opinion and probably get it surfaced if I was stuck 600 miles from home and hoped to drive back there,,,,,,,

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