BRINGING IT ALL TOGETHER.... A's, G's & E's


Disposing of the heat

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AzDon

Number of posts : 321
Location : Lake Havasu Az
Age : 61
Registration date : 2014-01-20

Disposing of the heat

Post by AzDon on Sat Apr 16, 2016 9:35 pm

I'm in the final stretch of dismantling the donor car that will provide the drivetrain for my 69 108 panel and I'm starting to get pumped about getting started on the van....
I'm going to set the engine back 18 inches for about a half dozen good reasons related to serviceability, seating, and ease of access......As I started considering all the cool ways I can then put multiple coolers and radiators in the front 1/3 of the box, I also began to consider that the chief defect in all of the vintage vans is that the engine, exhaust manifolds, and radiator are in a box that only vents out the bottom. Heat rises and there is no outside venting from the top of the box, so the heat is trapped, heats the box itself and invariably radiates into the interior......
So I came up with a couple of semi radical ideas to move the heat outside using the idea of heat rising  as a given, to be taken advantage of....
My first idea is to weld two 10 inch metal tubes thru the roof and thru the floor  behind the front seats and run 4" exhaust stacks up through those tubes. Auxiliary tubes with inline bilge blowers would vent the top of the engine box into these tubes... All these tubes would (of course) be heavily insulated on the interior side....
The second idea I had was to make a pair of 6" roof-rack rails out of 6" aluminum c-channel and mount radiators and coolers horizontally between the rails.... The rails would be mounted to the roof just inside the first outside ribs and would be 8' long and contoured on the bottom to fit the front-to-rear crown of the roof. It would be open in the front, possibly with an LED lightbar incorporated into the design. The rear would have a wedge spoiler (ala 70 camaro) as the rear wall to create some drag in the box and force air up thru the coolers..... A possible defect in the design might be that the coolers/radiators might become too hot while sitting in the sun, which may require having an aluminum plate shroud across the whole top with puller fans cut into it...Fluids could be plumbed through the roof using seal-able bulkhead fittings....
I know both of these ideas sound kind of gross, but the picture I have in my mind is actually kind off cool..... I wish I had artistic skills to draw stuff like this....
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vantacy83

Number of posts : 2
Location : upland ca.
Age : 52
Registration date : 2016-03-24

Re: Disposing of the heat

Post by vantacy83 on Sat Apr 16, 2016 11:05 pm

hello dose anyone know what screw size that bolts on the AIR DEFLECTOR  AND ENGINE SPLASH SHIELD .... 1964 HANDIVAN  IT WAS OFF AND SETTING IN BACK OF VAN WITH NO SCREWS  ....ANY INFO ON THIS WILL BE GRATE THANKS EVERYONE ,,
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dix
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Number of posts : 7974
Location : pittsburgh pa
Age : 60
Registration date : 2008-05-29

Re: Disposing of the heat

Post by dix on Sun Apr 17, 2016 5:33 am

there is a lot of different ways to remove the heat. what size motor are you installing ??
and why can't you add a extension on the back of the doghouse  with a slant down
so the heat would have more room to move, install the bilge pump motors to assist moving the air,
my 318 was running at 230. with a lot of different options i ran at 160 going up to and back from cleveland last month. a few years ago i ran 6 1/2 hours up to bakers and back with no problems, you always hear about the ones that run hot, no one ever complains about running cold.
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Digz

Number of posts : 3727
Location : United States Six Lakes MI
Registration date : 2008-05-17

Re: Disposing of the heat

Post by Digz on Sun Apr 17, 2016 7:24 am

In theory you should get enough air flow to purge the DH when your moving at any speed above 30 mph. This is just my opinion but trying to match that amount of air flow with bilge fans doesn't seem possible. Adding an air box and say a 14" electric fan on the back of the DH and directing it down might be a simpler solution. I ran into the "running hot" hot issue on my 65 with a V8. Through some trial and error and a bit of luck the engine temps run at the thermostat temps but the DH get s warm for sure in stop and go traffic and the occasional parade. After re-reading this I see there are actually 2 different issues. Engine temps and DH temps. So first would be keeping engine temps where they need to be and then dealing with the hot air which one would think would be easier. Climate would be a factor also, I can normally take a little extra warmth here. AZ maybe not so much ?
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AzDon

Number of posts : 321
Location : Lake Havasu Az
Age : 61
Registration date : 2014-01-20

Re: Disposing of the heat

Post by AzDon on Sun Apr 17, 2016 7:41 am

I have zero doubt that I can keep coolant temp as low as I'd want...... I'm using a roller cam L03 305 TBI out of a 91 wagon that has a factory oil cooler setup and I'll have all the room I need in front of the engine to run two radiators, if necessary. I also expect to lay the radiator(S)/ coolers back at the top for a lower vertical profile and allow space for airflow over the top. I also plan to make the back of the box angle down, as mentioned, and appropriately placed electric fans.....
Ultimately, though, the doghouse in one of these vans radiates heat into the interior at low speeds and after shutdown because it's not vented at the top (and heat rises)


Last edited by AzDon on Sun Apr 17, 2016 5:56 pm; edited 1 time in total
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dix
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Number of posts : 7974
Location : pittsburgh pa
Age : 60
Registration date : 2008-05-29

Re: Disposing of the heat

Post by dix on Sun Apr 17, 2016 8:02 am

so you set up a electric fan to shut off at 120 or so degrees
donnie did a real good post on all of this. when i built mine everyone said headers run cooler,
that does not make sense to me but i'm running ceramic coated street rod shorties now.


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Riconine

Number of posts : 53
Location : Seattle, Wa
Registration date : 2016-01-03

Re: Disposing of the heat

Post by Riconine on Sun Apr 17, 2016 8:47 am

vantacy83 wrote:hello dose anyone know what screw size that bolts on the AIR DEFLECTOR  AND ENGINE SPLASH SHIELD .... 1964 HANDIVAN  IT WAS OFF AND SETTING IN BACK OF VAN WITH NO SCREWS  ....ANY INFO ON THIS WILL BE GRATE THANKS EVERYONE ,,

On my 67 they are 7/16 bolts with speed nut clips
Hope that helps, Ric
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Twinpilot001

Number of posts : 6186
Location : spokane ,Wa.
Registration date : 2009-09-28

Re: Disposing of the heat

Post by Twinpilot001 on Sun Apr 17, 2016 9:02 am

Here's my take on all.= Remember when these vans were designed & sold - year after year- the factorys did not want or have heat problems with engines!! Think Warranty?? Now that said- as early as 1967 & some vehicles before - the vans came with radiator fan shrouds!! No Shroud= overheat. Shrouds were put there to gain airflow CFM -- pulling heat out of cooling system! Yes - doghouse gets hot- I agree - so add that fan to the top? area of dh & duct? downward to keep dh cooler -esp. in stop & go traffic! Belly pans added the ducting that was needed so air flow could be pulled from engine area /DH when moving!! No belly pan =overheat! Now- just a suggestion=??--- Get a new radiator/ recore if necessary? & shroud & keep cool! Also - electric fans will help - yet - were never needed in the origional designs-- & the electric fans were added due to factorys designs wanting more fuel mileage!! in our newer cars !! Our vans?? fuel mileage - what a joke!! The Headders =WILL run cooler than cast manifolds- why?? heat dissipation!!!!!!! tubing cools quicker than cast iron!! I am all in favor of radiators/ new !! and shrouds- even clutch fans too. Remember - no belly pan under engine= no cooling advantage when driving - that pan creates a Low Pressure area when moving inside the engine area!! Moves all that heat out!! Want xtra cooling - add a tranny fan cooler & an engine oil cooler too if need be - just xtra insurances!! No need for 2 radiators as you still have to get the airflow out of one 1st!! Why would anyone want to induce 200 degree heat fronm 1 radiatoe into the one behind it for cooling??????? just my thinking on all - affraid scratch
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dix
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Number of posts : 7974
Location : pittsburgh pa
Age : 60
Registration date : 2008-05-29

Re: Disposing of the heat

Post by dix on Sun Apr 17, 2016 9:37 am

like i said in the beginning there are ton of ways to resolve the overheating, the
newer engines run at a higher temps. i don't know what temp the engine being installed should run at.
cutting a tunnel in the floor seams to work best, but i'd suggest reinforcing the floor after you cut a tunnel in to it. insulating the dog house correctly will keep the heat out of the cab,
but 1st you have to get the engine in place. if i took 18 inches out of my drive shaft i'd have nothing left.???


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AzDon

Number of posts : 321
Location : Lake Havasu Az
Age : 61
Registration date : 2014-01-20

Re: Disposing of the heat

Post by AzDon on Sun Apr 17, 2016 7:38 pm

My van is a 108.....I did a tunnel on my 66 van as well as  replacing the bellypan with a large scoop....That van had a 396, a four core crossflow radiator turned sideways (vertical), and no fan clutch......The engine temp was always good, but the in-cab heat was unbearable......
My thought on running two radiators was partially to increase the ratio of engine coolant outside the engine being cooled in relation to the amount in the engine. Also, by laying them back with a six inch gap and an electric fan behind each, the second radiator would have open space in front of it at the top while the first rad would have open space behind at the bottom. Hopefully the grille opening would ram a fair amount of air in over the top and create a blanket of cooler air across the top and the fans would pull some of that down through the radiators and coolers. A case could also be made for the angled- down rear of the box to be two big tubes with electric fans to draw air through....
The body actually hangs a foot below the floor, though and can trap a lot of hot air under the floor, especially from the exhaust (why I plan to use sidepipes)...
Ultimately, I probably won't cut or drill anything into the roof, so any heat deletion strategy is going to involve forcing hot air out the bottom....

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