BRINGING IT ALL TOGETHER.... A's, G's & E's


Gas mileage..

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zinger68dodge

Number of posts : 34
Location : wausau WI
Age : 47
Registration date : 2015-07-13

Gas mileage..

Post by zinger68dodge on Mon Nov 30, 2015 6:08 am

I am looking for information on anybody that has strived and achieved the best gas millage out of there old van. Over drive tranny? skinny tires? I have a mild rebuilt 225/6 with two 2 barrel carbs. looking to do MAYBE a different transmission? cruse control and want to put front disc breaks on her? If someone has some advice or information, that would be helpful. Thank you. I'm lol! pumped up to be on this site. looks very cool.

Zinger.
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Barnabas
Vintage-Vans Listings Manager
Vintage-Vans Listings Manager

Number of posts : 1906
Location : Raleigh, NC
Age : 57
Registration date : 2011-01-16

Re: Gas mileage..

Post by Barnabas on Mon Nov 30, 2015 3:46 pm

Welcome to V V.

Have you found the Search button at the top of the page? Lots of information if you search "gas mileage."
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zinger68dodge

Number of posts : 34
Location : wausau WI
Age : 47
Registration date : 2015-07-13

gas millage

Post by zinger68dodge on Fri Jan 15, 2016 8:40 am

It seams the only two post's are mine. ?
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Barnabas
Vintage-Vans Listings Manager
Vintage-Vans Listings Manager

Number of posts : 1906
Location : Raleigh, NC
Age : 57
Registration date : 2011-01-16

Re: Gas mileage..

Post by Barnabas on Fri Jan 15, 2016 11:16 am

And two posts from me. 😄😄
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Zuffen

Number of posts : 165
Location : Sydney Australia
Age : 64
Registration date : 2011-07-28

Re: Gas mileage..

Post by Zuffen on Fri Jan 15, 2016 1:43 pm

With any trans swap you need to work out how much it will cost and then work out how much additional gas you could buy with that money.

I think you will find even a $500.00 trans swap will need you to cover a very large mileage to pay for it in the bit of fuel you save.

Me, I don't care about gas mileage and just enjoy the drive.
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RodStRace

Number of posts : 3016
Location : Chino Valley
Registration date : 2010-01-21

Re: Gas mileage..

Post by RodStRace on Sat Jan 16, 2016 12:41 pm

The same tips found for any vehicle would apply to vintage vans, but I really question anyone who is concerned with MPG in a vehicle with the aero of a barn door coupled with almost always a terribly outdated (carb, points ignition) drivetrain. Especially when gasoline is at a historically low price.
Searching for "better gas mileage" on Google returns over 15 MILLION results. I suggest you start there.
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zinger68dodge

Number of posts : 34
Location : wausau WI
Age : 47
Registration date : 2015-07-13

Re: Gas mileage..

Post by zinger68dodge on Sun Jan 17, 2016 12:20 pm

This van is going to be my retirement home. traveling around the country. I just thought that if there was another van owner who tackled this issue with success. I can read all day long on the internet. But it would be nice to speak with a hands on person who has had success with this issue. 500 hundred bucks can be made up over the long run. I have 10 grand in the van and haven't drove it yet. What's another 500 bucks if down the line its getting 25 mpg. or even better.

With just being short of an fuel injection motor would offer.. this 225 has the most updated mechanisms that can be put on this motor. Cruse control set at top speed of 60 miles per hour. gas may seem low now. but if you think that its going to stay that way. ?? People want to control other people. The Government is made up of people that have that control..

I'm not to surprised about the cloud of deception that 911 has casted over this nation. germinating an agenda of control that they are getting away with.

thank you..
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samsvan

Number of posts : 377
Location : Sarasota, Fl.
Age : 54
Registration date : 2014-09-04

Re: Gas mileage..

Post by samsvan on Sun Jan 17, 2016 4:53 pm

Zinger, I'm no pro when it comes to mechanics and I don't have a Dodge. But, from the research I've done, you should look into an overdrive tranny coupled with the right rear end gearing to do highway cruising speeds at reasonable (2000 - 2500) rpm's. Like Rod said though, you're still trying to push a giant brick through the air so 25 mpg might be pretty optimistic.
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RodStRace

Number of posts : 3016
Location : Chino Valley
Registration date : 2010-01-21

Re: Gas mileage..

Post by RodStRace on Sun Jan 17, 2016 5:45 pm

Okay, since you got offended, I'll give you the basics as I understand them. I will leave out the barn door, since even though it's the biggest thing it won't be changed.
Smaller wheel bearings with thin grease, preferably synthetic. Not an easy fix.
Brakes that are light and don't drag when released. If you still have drums, get the shoes arced to fit the drum. Very hard to find this service. This allows the least amount of pedal travel before full application.
Correct alignment. This allows the tires to track straight and not take energy to push down the road.
Light, skinny wheels and tires to decease mass and friction.
Operate the engine at or slightly below torque peak.
Reduce internal and external friction. Inside, make tolerances tighter, run a thin oil, low tension rings, and size the components closer to maximum needed, not 50% more. No high volume or pressure oil pumps, for instance. Ensure the latest tech in ports, cylinder shape, cam specs and cooling are all considered. You want an engine that will develop good power at low RPM, with little timing advance and use as little fuel as possible. A 225 is a non-cross flow head that requires a lot of work to get good quench. It also does not shed heat as well. The designer back in the early 60s suggested a very long tri-Y header design. Then consider that almost all modern engines run at over 200 degrees F normal operating temps. This is to tighten tolerances even more, use the heat energy in the engine to help promote leaner fuel curves, and more completely burn the fuel. It also keeps the oil cleaner by promoting evaporation of blowby. Is your cooling system set up to handle these temps in different climates? Are you using an electric fan or at least a clutch fan? That big fan is an example of external drag.
Try adding a good EVAP system too. Every little bit, right? That fuel smell near your tank and carbs (?!) is fuel not being used to go down the road.
Modern transmissions have more gears, lockup converters, synthetic fluids and are sized closer to usage than the 727 in your van. Even a 904 would gain a few percent.
synthetic grease in the u-joints.
Rear axle set up with synthetic lube, making sure friction is low. Also make sure it's aligned properly and doesn't have camber or toe bent into it. Apply the brake and wheel/tire parts back here too.
How you drive makes a big difference too. slower starts and stops along with lower speeds are always cited.
All of this can be seen in even 20 year-old cars (1996 by now) and has been whispered, shared, shouted and even government mandated for even longer. I doubt any of this is really new to anyone who has tested for a driver's license, owned a car or spent any time reading about car related stuff.
Stop reading/listening to alarmists and conspiracy stuff for a couple days and search for basic principles like more mass means more energy to move it, that even modern internal combustion engines only use 15-30% of the energy in the fuel and that the loose nut behind the wheel (the driver) can make a huge difference in MPG. That last one is the reason I was short the first time. If someone is REALLY interested in getting better MPG, the info is out there and they are the quickest, cheapest way to increase MPG. If they just ask for easy answers, they likely are not really interested in the topic. Otherwise, they would be studying every bit of info they could get. I've been on enough sites that I've seen MPG threads turn into arguments almost every time, along with bringing up the 100 MPG carbs and other wacky stuff. Basic physics and obvious answers get ignored.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engine_efficiency
http://www.consumerenergycenter.org/transportation/consumer_tips/vehicle_energy_losses.html
http://www.explainthatstuff.com/engines.html
http://www.moneytalksnews.com/mythbusters-use-hypermiling-improve-gas-mileage-70-percent/
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Barnabas
Vintage-Vans Listings Manager
Vintage-Vans Listings Manager

Number of posts : 1906
Location : Raleigh, NC
Age : 57
Registration date : 2011-01-16

Re: Gas mileage..

Post by Barnabas on Mon Jan 18, 2016 4:49 am

Good stuff - Rod
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RodStRace

Number of posts : 3016
Location : Chino Valley
Registration date : 2010-01-21

Re: Gas mileage..

Post by RodStRace on Mon Jan 18, 2016 8:11 am

Thanks Barnabas!
Also note that at least in the Dodge case, the differential fluid should be synthetic, but the outer bearings are not lubricated with this. They are sealed off from the gear lube and require greasing just like the front. Use synthetic grease here too, It is covered in the service manual on page 0-2 Lubrication And Maintenance Chart. Do NOT expect an auto parts store to have the exact lubricants listed on the page. 50 year old specs have been replaced with modern stuff.

Research each one by either brand (Rislone, Amsoil, Mobil1, etc.) or by application (bearings, for example) http://www.timken.com/en-us/products/lubrication/Pages/faq.aspx
or using a website you trust that has a good reputation. http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/functions-of-grease/

Then you can check the additives if you haven't had enough info overload. Just remember that any brand name oil is going to have some of these chemicals already. So the questions are: is more than enough too much or okay, do you need more, is it cheaper to buy good oil and the additive OR go with super premium oil?
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/oil-additives-for-engine.htm


If you don't trust any source, you can experiment yourself. Find a flat, smooth area. push you van a measured distance across this. Time the result and remember how 'hard' it was to push.
Try it again with the tires inflated more (or less). You will see a difference in "rolling resistance". You can try a bunch of things and check how effective they are doing this. For lubricants, remember to get them up to temperature. Repacking the front wheel bearings is good, but do your test with the old grease warm and the new grease warm. This provides more even reliable results and a side benefit of having to drive your van more!
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RodStRace

Number of posts : 3016
Location : Chino Valley
Registration date : 2010-01-21

Re: Gas mileage..

Post by RodStRace on Mon Jan 18, 2016 8:40 am

If you REALLY want to get great mileage in an A-100, I'd suggest either a 4BT (turbo diesel) or a Neon SRT/PT Cruiser GT (2.4L turbo) with a 5 speed stick transmission from a 87-89 Dakota.
These can be hopped up to 300 HP easily, provide many of the benefits mentioned and will have less pumping loss (smaller displacement).

SRT
Here's a MPG-centric site and the results for such a vehicle. Remember that your van is heavier and less aerodynamic!
http://www.fuelly.com/car/dodge/neon/2004
They even have a tips section.

4BT
http://www.4btswaps.com/forum/forum.php
http://www.fourwheeler.com/how-to/engine/154-1006-top-10-dumbest-jeep-engine-swaps-ever/
Scroll to the bottom for the 4BT thoughts.
and sources for conversion stuff from the same site
http://www.fourwheeler.com/how-to/transmission-drivetrain/129-1208-14-companies-that-specialize-in-diesel-conversion/?cx_navSource=related-right
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RodStRace

Number of posts : 3016
Location : Chino Valley
Registration date : 2010-01-21

Re: Gas mileage..

Post by RodStRace on Wed Mar 16, 2016 11:23 am

So zinger wants MPG info. Gets upset when told to look.
I provide a ton of info, links and description on what he asks for.
2 months later and he provides no thank yous, no feedback, nothing... just as I predicted

QUOTE from 1/17
If someone is REALLY interested in getting better MPG, the info is out there and they are the quickest, cheapest way to increase MPG. If they just ask for easy answers, they likely are not really interested in the topic. Otherwise, they would be studying every bit of info they could get. I've been on enough sites that I've seen MPG threads turn into arguments almost every time, along with bringing up the 100 MPG carbs and other wacky stuff. Basic physics and obvious answers get ignored.

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kookykrispy

Number of posts : 1432
Location : Tacoma, WA
Age : 43
Registration date : 2009-05-22

Re: Gas mileage..

Post by kookykrispy on Wed Mar 16, 2016 12:09 pm

zinger68dodge wrote:I just thought that if there was another van owner who tackled this issue with success. I can read all day long on the internet. But it would be nice to speak with a hands on person who has had success with this issue. 500 hundred bucks can be made up over the long run. I have 10 grand in the van and haven't drove it yet. What's another 500 bucks if down the line its getting 25 mpg. or even better.


I think most of us would love to get anything over 15 mpg.

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