4 speed vs 3 speed

Hi all, this is my first post to this forum although I've been lurking for a while.
I'm buying a 1964 econoline van and it has a 4 speed. The seller said that this is a rare option as most came with the 3 speed.
I am going to use this van for around the town driving- no long trips- is the 4 speed better for this sort of driving than the 3 speed or does it just mean more shifting?
Are the 4 speed trans and 3 speed interchangeable?
Thanks in advance, when I get the van home I'll post some pictures.
Bob

The four speed on the tree is basically garbage in my opinion. The trans isn't as strong as the 3 speed. They are interchangeable but the steering column are different. A member her "olschool" usually has the columns

The 4 speeds have a higher first gear than the 3 speeds. That makes taking off from a stop harder to do. Most of the 4 speed trucks had a 4:56 rear gear because of this. Ford called the 4 speeds city transmissions because of the close gear ratios and higer rear gear and I'm sure they did fine. I have a 64 van that belonged to Pacific Bell and it had a 4 speed and 4:56 rear. Pac Bell swapped it out for a three speed. They must not have liked it much. Top end would really suffer with a 4:56 gear. Probably in the 50-55 range. The Dagenham's were total junk and are very hard to find parts for now. They were only offered for a couple of years. 63-64. The top loader three speed was built forever and is almost indestructable. Parts are everywhere.

Duane in Tennessee.

Hi, thanks for the replies.
I'm actually buying two econolines in a package deal. The one I am going to keep has the three speed and the one I will sell off has the four speed.
It sounds like I lucked out.
The seller did say that the 4 speed van has had the differential ratio lowered so it can go over 40 on the freeway.
I'm curious to see what the shift linkage looks like. There must be a lot of twists and turns to go from the upper steering column then down and back to the trans.
regards
Bob

Be sure to save all those 4-speed parts to resale, many out there are looking for those parts

Do save all the 4 speed stuff. It's worth a lot to some. Lots of people looking for those 4:56 gears too. Just swap out the center section for one with a more highway friendly gear set.

Duane in Tennessee.

I just rebuilt my 4 speed and man they are not kidding. It was hard to find the parts. I got it all back together now and it is running good. If and when it goes out again, I'm switching to a auto.

That dagenham 4 speed has been a rare piece forever. It is in no way a performance trans and it is very hard to find parts for. The belhousing has holes and the trans is threaded so the bell bolts from inside. Without both pieces the parts are worthless. But!!!, it is worth a lot of $$$ to the Mustang resto crowd. It was an option in early Falcons and 64-65 Mustangs with the 170 engine.If you have one you could probably move it on Evilbay and pay for your upgrade.

66ThunderVan wrote:That dagenham 4 speed has been a rare piece forever. It is in no way a performance trans and it is very hard to find parts for. The belhousing has holes and the trans is threaded so the bell bolts from inside. Without both pieces the parts are worthless. But!!!, it is worth a lot of $$$ to the Mustang resto crowd. It was an option in early Falcons and 64-65 Mustangs with the 170 engine.If you have one you could probably move it on Evilbay and pay for your upgrade.

Really how much are we talk'n??? Maybe I'll be switch'n tranny's real soon!!

As always, it depends on demand but I think you could get as much as $500 for the complete set. Thats trans, bell and throw out fork. Just keep in mind it may take a while to get a buyer because it is an odd-ball. Put a reserve on it so you don't get low balled.
A good 3.03 top loader 3 speed can be had cheap. It is not a simple swap, but it can be done. You will need a shifter, trans, bell, fork and drive shaft.
While you are at it you might want to upgrade to a 9". The rear end change will usually have a 3.50 or 4.11 ratio. The dagenham needs the 4.56 to pull well and really sucks for fuel economy and interstate driving.

I don't want to rain on any parades,, but. I have only heard of one person ever wanting the Dag box, and that was on this site a short while ago. The Dag is well known as a very weak transmission, and the gearing usually was the 4.11. The gearing is said to be terrible with people saying 1st is almost useless and to just skip it and start in 2nd??
I have several of the 4spd columns here, and have rebuilt a few. They are the hardest for me to rebuild as I have to sacrifice a stronger upper support and make a new one as it shares the same weak upper support as all our manuals do.
I have only been able to sell one to a customer who is setting up a 3spd overdrive (manual)in order to make it a clean setup.
All said, its generally a better upgrade to loose the 4:
gears, (3:50's usually good comprise)and put in a 3spd.
Just my experiences.
vic

Old Skool wrote:I don't want to rain on any parades,, but. I have only heard of one person ever wanting the Dag box, and that was on this site a short while ago. The Dag is well known as a very weak transmission, and the gearing usually was the 4.11. The gearing is said to be terrible with people saying 1st is almost useless and to just skip it and start in 2nd??
I have several of the 4spd columns here, and have rebuilt a few. They are the hardest for me to rebuild as I have to sacrifice a stronger upper support and make a new one as it shares the same weak upper support as all our manuals do.
I have only been able to sell one to a customer who is setting up a 3spd overdrive (manual)in order to make it a clean setup.
All said, its generally a better upgrade to loose the 4:
gears, (3:50's usually good comprise)and put in a 3spd.
Just my experiences.
vic

Dang it! Looks like I need to get out my umbrella, parade has been canceled!