Earlier M1d Disc brake bracket revised parts list

Any body that has the earlier (first design) of M1D brackets. This will apply to the brackets made by Leadfoot as well.

This post addresses the parts list for the front wheels only!


The first set of instructions had many choices of Parts that would all work for different resons. The choices were all there because of the many different aspects of each van and what the owner was planning to do with it, he could customise hos brakes to be what was best for his van. Unfortunatly many people did not have enough expirience to know what to choose or were'nt even sure what they wanted to do anyway.
This is a brake "System" with many options that can be customised to your particular wants and the vans needs. Its Like building up an engine there are millions of different parts you could choose to put in it and you choose them based on aspects of your vehicle and what you want to do with it.

Theres too many people confusing other people with all their oppinions on what calipers and other parts to use.
Because I designed these brackets and have done more real time expirimentation with different parts then anybody else I know of. After changing parts many times and trying different combonations. I have made a decision on what I think best choice of parts to use for both 1st and 2nd gen vans to create a basic brake system . ( this does not mean all the other possabilites and options are no longer any good)
There are litteraly hundreds of detailed reasons and discoveries that led to this list. I can't go into it here. If you have a question I will be happy to help you .
Hopefully this will reduce the amount of choosing for those who are overwhelmed with all the choices.

All part numbers are NAPA numbers and you can look them up here

http://www.napaonline.com/

The Rotor is the # 4885774 that fits the rear of the 79-81 Pontiac firebird Trans-Am

The best caliper is front calipers from the same 79-81 Firebird. These calipers are listed under several different numbers because they come in different qualities and with more or less extras. Its cheeper and less hastle to go with the "fully Loaded caqliper" that comes with pads and everything. Whatever the number is dosn't matter as long as it is the front calipers for the 79-81 Firebird. If you look up calipers for this car on the napa web site you will see what I mean about a bunch of different part numbers, but they are all the same casting when it comes to fitting this bracket.

If you want to get fancy, there is also alluminum single or duel piston calipers from Wilwood that are a direct replacement for the ones I mention above.

The best all round flex lines that fit right on(no drilling) onto normal or a little bit higher then normal suspension high is # 38102. they are 19" long so you can make routing choices at install. If you have low rider suspension and need a little shorter hose you could use # 36845 which is 15" long.

The banjo bolts will be # 82703

The wheels studs needed are # 641-1267

All the other bearings , seals and required bolts are the numbers on your install sheet that you recieved with the brackets.

M1D

Could you list master cyl. options again also?

Please & Thank You.

I'm not going to recomend a master. But read this and find your answer.

Many people have changed their master out several times trying to get the pedal feel they want, including me.
They have tried the 2nd gen master, 3rd gen master, early corvette, 79-80 firebird, F150, and others. Most of these should work with varying degrees of success, or not. The corvette style master ( in two sizes) is what most aftermarket brake kit supliers sell.

I am reluctant to state what I think is best because so many Vanners install a master and then get all hot under the colar because their van brakes don't feel like their 2009 Escalade brakes or what ever they were expecting it to feel like. they come back at me as if its my fault that they had unrealistick expectations.
The crazy part is, in most of those cases they didn't have the brakes at the wheels installed right or blead right and their problem had nothing to do with the master which they didn't discover until they went to a 2nd or 3rd master type.

Here are the basic requirments you need to consider.

#1 You need to know what residual check valves are in your master or not. Masters came with all kinds of arrangments of built in residual check valve s. Unfortunatly the only way I know of being sure is to know what the brakes will act like if you have the residual valving wrong. So I choose a master cylinder that has none.

I, and most all aftermarket brake kit supliers, like the early corvette master because its low profile, comes in two bore sizes, has standard bolt and line sizes, and has no internal residual check valves.

#2 master cylinders can come in many different Bore sizes and also in the "quick take up" type with stepped bore. Basically for these vans and every other vehicle in this wieght class using these calipers and rotors you want either the 1" or 1.125" bore. This is where personal preference of 'feel" comes in, and you have options. Because the original van brake pedal arm in not the best geometric ratio for either power or manual brakes, you get to play with choosing what you personly prefer.
The other reality about choosing a bore size is what do you have at the wheels?? drum/drum? disc/drum? duisc/disc? or more to the point what size pistons are in the calipers and cylinders(how much fluid volume do they consume).
Its a mater of physics, regardless of whats at the wheels, a 1" bore master will give a lower pedal but be easier to push. A larger 1.125" bore will give a higher pedal but be harder to aply the same amount of braking force.

Some vanners are happy with the 1" on their set up.
I have chosen the 1.125" bore for my van. ( I could not use the 1" bore because I have disc/disc which is larger pistons then drum cylinders and uses much fluid). The 12" rotor set I am designing will have a smaller caliper piston so a 1" bore might be best there.

Note: parts counter people may try to tell you Bore size is related to "power or manual" brakes but thats not so. They deduce that based on the what they see on thier application listings.

#3 is the question of power master vs manual master. There is only one difference betwwen a power vs manual master and that is the hole depth in the pistom where the pedal rod inserts. Power brake masters have a shallow hole because they are attached to a booster where the rod is not going to fall out of the master. Manual masters have a deeper hole in the piston so when you let you foot off the pedal and the pedal spring up faster then the master's piston returns, the rod will not fall out of the master. (which would be bad on next brake application).

So to recap. You want a manual (deep hole) master.
you want a master with no internal residual valves.
you have to choose if 1" or 1.125" bore is what you like.

Look here

http://www.tuffstuffperformance.com/index.cfm/page/ptype=results/Category_ID=210/home_id=206/mode=cat/cat210.htm


I am using the 1.125" bore deep hole master. and the Tuff stuff people include an insert to convert the same master to a shallow hole, which I am using now because I switched up to a powewer booster. And I have changed up the pedal geometry to increase pedal hight. This all very different then the early corvette application which used a 1" bore master for four wheel manual disc set up, but that car had a very different padal linkage geometry.
Look under "universaL MASTERS" PLAIN, 1.125".
Like I said, some people like the 1" bore on their disc/drum set up and others like the 1.125" on the same set up.

Or
Napa M1974
http://www.napaonline.com/Search/Detail.aspx?R=NMAM1974_0304347421#
m1d

Good Enough, Thank You!