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RUST...HELP! The how to's the don't do's the wastes of time..I want to know!

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Casimier

Number of posts : 861
Location : Jackson,NJ
Age : 65
Registration date : 2010-07-26

RUST...HELP! The how to's the don't do's the wastes of time..I want to know!

Post by Casimier on Thu Dec 02, 2010 11:56 am

So I have an earlyy E100 pickup coming.....got the donor...

I want to do a good job on the body...good, not win every show but look good.
What is the treatment for rust? All types of rust.
For instance, I have a tailgate that has old chalked paint, no serious dents but the scratches have all rusted and there are minor rust patches..no rust thru.
Do I wheel brush down to bare metal at the rust areas and just apply primer?
Or do I use that special rust preventative coating and then the prmer?

What do I do at the van panel seams that have rust lines? Do I dig out the rust, wire brush and then bondo?

How big of a rust hole is is too big for bondo before you have to weld in a piece?
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austinmodhouse

Number of posts : 575
Location : austin
Registration date : 2010-07-30

Re: RUST...HELP! The how to's the don't do's the wastes of time..I want to know!

Post by austinmodhouse on Thu Dec 02, 2010 12:21 pm

I'm right there with you. especially with the body seams as this is a new area for me I'm anxious to see other replies.

my plan so far was to wire wheel out as much as possible, maybe use naval jelly (wipe off and rinse) then apply rust preventative primer/paint. I have used por-15 in the past, but also use rustoleum rusty metal primer.

I think small rust holes can be bondo'd as long as the rust is treated and killed first (naval jelly) and they do make a fiber junk that can fill larger gaps or dents that can't be banged out. new steel is always better but not an option for everybody.

http://www.por15.com/RESTOGRIP/productinfo/RG20/

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Casimier

Number of posts : 861
Location : Jackson,NJ
Age : 65
Registration date : 2010-07-26

Re: RUST...HELP! The how to's the don't do's the wastes of time..I want to know!

Post by Casimier on Thu Dec 02, 2010 12:53 pm

I'm toying with the idea of paint rolling my van like the You-tube article.
Maybe the use of the rustoleum products might be wise.
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G-Man
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Location : Fowlerville, MI
Age : 56
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Re: RUST...HELP! The how to's the don't do's the wastes of time..I want to know!

Post by G-Man on Thu Dec 02, 2010 1:23 pm

Theres alot of ways for fixing rust and stopping it. For the tailgate sanding and primer and dry location should do it. There are rust convertors for the hard to get to areas. And many other products for different jobs

As far as the bondo if used right it's a great product (most don't use it right) When using bondo you can use it on any size hole as long as there a metal patch under it. And bondo should be only used very thinly to smooth out the areas of the weld patch
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67a 100 pickup

Number of posts : 1319
Location : ann arbor, mi
Registration date : 2009-01-29

Re: RUST...HELP! The how to's the don't do's the wastes of time..I want to know!

Post by 67a 100 pickup on Thu Dec 02, 2010 2:03 pm

I'm with G-man.... bondo in a hole is a bad idea that will have to be fixed again in a couple of years, the thinist you can make it the better it will last.
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Digz

Number of posts : 3764
Location : United States Six Lakes MI
Registration date : 2008-05-17

Re: RUST...HELP! The how to's the don't do's the wastes of time..I want to know!

Post by Digz on Thu Dec 02, 2010 2:09 pm

I have been using alot of something called Zero-Rust. it comes in a rattle can and is a rust converter, get it at the auotparts store, it looks like it does what it says, haven't had enough time with it to really tell how long it holds up. But ya want a well ventilated area and maybe use a good mask if your close to your work.
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austinmodhouse

Number of posts : 575
Location : austin
Registration date : 2010-07-30

Re: RUST...HELP! The how to's the don't do's the wastes of time..I want to know!

Post by austinmodhouse on Thu Dec 02, 2010 3:03 pm

the hole I have is about the diameter of a pencil. I wire wheel'd it from both sides, applied the rust disolving acid and finally the por-15. I have a mig welder and some scrap, but not sure it is worth the the effort as the por-15 has it sealed up pretty good. this is just behind the front wheel pssngr side, the lip of the wheel well.

and I did use the wire wheel to dig out as much as I could along hte long body seam on both sides (horizontal) and then did squish as much por-15 as I could. will look for that zero-rust product as the por is not cheap and has to be shipped.
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G-Man
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Number of posts : 30745
Location : Fowlerville, MI
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Re: RUST...HELP! The how to's the don't do's the wastes of time..I want to know!

Post by G-Man on Thu Dec 02, 2010 3:32 pm

The true key to stop rust is overkill
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Casimier

Number of posts : 861
Location : Jackson,NJ
Age : 65
Registration date : 2010-07-26

Re: RUST...HELP! The how to's the don't do's the wastes of time..I want to know!

Post by Casimier on Thu Dec 02, 2010 3:37 pm

what do you use over POR15? can you use just a reg primer?
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austinmodhouse

Number of posts : 575
Location : austin
Registration date : 2010-07-30

Re: RUST...HELP! The how to's the don't do's the wastes of time..I want to know!

Post by austinmodhouse on Thu Dec 02, 2010 3:58 pm

most of the por-15 I crammed into that seam will be sanded off when I sand the chalky paint of the side, but the stuff jammed into the seam will stay and get covered with filler

I had a small can left from a bmw restoration, it was mostly empty and when that stuff dries, it is like a rock. so I I had to destroy the can to open it a second time. no third chance, had to use it all once I opened it to treat the small rust hole in the wheel well.

hint, it may be better to buy a bunch of small cans than one big one if you are not going to use it all at once. otherwise, I'm not sure what most people top coat it with, but it's a common restoration/rust repair item that has been around for a while.

I do no it is not UV resistant so it does require top coating

with the right primer I believe you can use any paint over it, at least that is what it says from the link below (noting they want you to buy the por-15 primer)

http://coolfj40.stores.yahoo.net/approc.html
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kgdb

Number of posts : 266
Location : Canada
Registration date : 2009-12-03

Re: RUST...HELP! The how to's the don't do's the wastes of time..I want to know!

Post by kgdb on Thu Dec 02, 2010 4:06 pm

There is only one way to get those seams clean and that is to sand blast them, clean them out super good after blasting and spray them with a metal etching primer or epoxy primer, make sure it penetrates the seams or else rust will be back.

kgdb.
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austinmodhouse

Number of posts : 575
Location : austin
Registration date : 2010-07-30

Re: RUST...HELP! The how to's the don't do's the wastes of time..I want to know!

Post by austinmodhouse on Thu Dec 02, 2010 5:02 pm

no doubt you are right, but I don't have a sand blaster and have to work with what I got. there was only MINOR amount of rust after 44 years, I figure I put it back a few.

some day...
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donivan65
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Number of posts : 11637
Location : San Diego, California
Registration date : 2008-05-12

Re: RUST...HELP! The how to's the don't do's the wastes of time..I want to know!

Post by donivan65 on Thu Dec 02, 2010 6:49 pm

Covering it up aint going to stop it,,,,,so you get rid of as much as you can,,,,,,,,use a rust remover,,,,,,,use a rust neutralizer,,,,,,,bury it with a rust encapsulator,,,,,,

http://www.rustencapsulator.com/FAQ.htm
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austinmodhouse

Number of posts : 575
Location : austin
Registration date : 2010-07-30

Re: RUST...HELP! The how to's the don't do's the wastes of time..I want to know!

Post by austinmodhouse on Thu Dec 02, 2010 6:52 pm

uhhh, yeah that is what I did.

I used a wire wheel on a 200k rpm grinder and dug out the stuff (and there wasn't really much to start with)

then I treated naval jelly, the acid jell that neutralizes rust

then I sealed it up with por-15 rust encapsulator.... I didn't just cover it up....
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Casimier

Number of posts : 861
Location : Jackson,NJ
Age : 65
Registration date : 2010-07-26

Re: RUST...HELP! The how to's the don't do's the wastes of time..I want to know!

Post by Casimier on Fri Dec 03, 2010 7:47 am

Thanks Guys
I knew the answers were out there already!
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slowflapper

Number of posts : 945
Location : GA
Age : 49
Registration date : 2010-07-29

Re: RUST...HELP! The how to's the don't do's the wastes of time..I want to know!

Post by slowflapper on Fri Dec 03, 2010 8:16 am

Pretty much any of the high quality "rust catalysts" will get the job done. I'm using a bottle called "Right Stuff Rust Remover" currently but "Phosporic Prep and Etch" at home depot (phosporic prep and prime is at lowes) is good quality and about the cheapest you will find at $15 or so a gallon.

Most, if not all of these are based on phosporic acid, even naval jelly has it in the ingredients. The idea is to remove all of the paint and rust scale by blasting, grinding or sanding and then treat whats left with a catalyst. If you dont get down to good metal a catalyst will just convert the top layer leaving active rust underneath.

Clean up after ward if necessary by the recommend means for the product (some say wipe down with mineral spirits, some do nothing at all). Then paint with a good rustoleum auto primer.

Here's a link to Home Depots Product line

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