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Oil Filter seal keeps blowing out

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aecker22

Number of posts : 4
Location : Wisconsin
Registration date : 2010-04-21

Oil Filter seal keeps blowing out

Post by aecker22 on Wed Apr 21, 2010 5:05 pm

Hey guys, I recently took up the project to get my dad's old 67 Chevy van running. It's in pretty good shape and I can get the engine to turn over and even run for a bit. The problem I'm having is that the oil filter seal keeps blowing out and spurting oil everywhere. I replaced the oil filter once, and it still happens. I tightened it according to the instructions but it insists on blowing out. The filter I'm using is a FRAM PH30. For the 230 engine I'm pretty sure this is the right model to use (www.google.com%2BSearch%2Bfor%2B1967%2BCHEVROLET%2BG10%2BVAN%2B3.8L%2B230cid%2BL6" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">PH30), am I wrong? What else could be causing the pressure buildup to blow out the seal? Thanks for the help
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Digz

Number of posts : 3771
Location : United States Six Lakes MI
Registration date : 2008-05-17

Re: Oil Filter seal keeps blowing out

Post by Digz on Wed Apr 21, 2010 5:30 pm

Check out this link to a thread I found, http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2785452
Maybe it can give you a direction to look for blockages or something in that area. And welcome to the site.
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donivan65
Governor
Governor

Number of posts : 11676
Location : San Diego, California
Registration date : 2008-05-12

Re: Oil Filter seal keeps blowing out

Post by donivan65 on Wed Apr 21, 2010 6:00 pm

Are you sure you have the old gasket off? Is the adapter in all the way? Is it the right adapter or the threads messed up so that the filter won't tighten up all the way. Do you have a pressure gauge that will show if the oil pressure is too high or too low right before this happens?



aecker22

Number of posts : 4
Location : Wisconsin
Registration date : 2010-04-21

Re: Oil Filter seal keeps blowing out

Post by aecker22 on Wed Apr 21, 2010 8:17 pm

Hey again, Thanks for the quick replies. Anyways, I don't have an oil pressure gauge that I could use. I'm sure that I have the old rubber seal off before I put the new one on. I wiped the whole area around the filter clean and then used a small amount of oil on the ring to make a good seal. I tightened the filter about 1 and a half turns after it made contact with the block. This was as tight as I could possibly get it. I'm wondering what would cause so much pressure to blow the seal? Does anyone know if the PH30 is 100% compatible. According to that link it says it is, but I'm wondering what was the factory filter that came with it.
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donivan65
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Governor

Number of posts : 11676
Location : San Diego, California
Registration date : 2008-05-12

Re: Oil Filter seal keeps blowing out

Post by donivan65 on Wed Apr 21, 2010 8:48 pm

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m1dadio
Chevy Guru

Number of posts : 1738
Location : Victoria B.C.
Registration date : 2008-10-06

Re: Oil Filter seal keeps blowing out

Post by m1dadio on Wed Apr 21, 2010 10:26 pm

It takes about 200 psi to blow out the oil filter gasket if the filter is installed right.

The filter bypass shown in the previous photos are for when the filter itself is plugged. It might suprize some of you to know that 50 top 80% of your oil bypasses the filter all the time anyway.

When I built race engines we would remove that spring and fiber valve, thread the hole and plug it with a pipe plug. We would also use aviation filters which are the same as those over prised "high performance filters" because they have a can bust strenght of 600 psi.

Even if that bypass is blocked it will not cause the problem you are having.

Oil preasure is regulated by a preset bypas in the oil pump with a calibrated spring. It dosn't matter whats blocked beond that it will still only make the 50 to 75 psi its suposed to.

If your filter is on right and you are blowing filter gaskets either you have seriosly high viscosity oil or the relief valve is stuck in the oil pump. The later is likely the case due to corrosion if the van has sat for some years.

You will have the drop the pan to get at it unfortunatly.
M1D
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donivan65
Governor
Governor

Number of posts : 11676
Location : San Diego, California
Registration date : 2008-05-12

Re: Oil Filter seal keeps blowing out

Post by donivan65 on Wed Apr 21, 2010 10:48 pm

So I guess the plan is to check the oil pressure,,,,,,,if it is over 75 psi you got engine problems,,,,,,,,,,,you might be able to get an oil pressure gauge to use at Autozone,,,,,,,,,,also check that bypass valve to see if it moves in and pops back out in case the problem happens to be filter related,,,,,

aecker22

Number of posts : 4
Location : Wisconsin
Registration date : 2010-04-21

Re: Oil Filter seal keeps blowing out

Post by aecker22 on Thu Apr 22, 2010 12:02 am

Wow this site is awesome. I never knew there was a such a good van community like this.

Back on topic, I will try to check out the relief valve tomorrow afternoon and report back with details. Thanks again
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m1dadio
Chevy Guru

Number of posts : 1738
Location : Victoria B.C.
Registration date : 2008-10-06

Re: Oil Filter seal keeps blowing out

Post by m1dadio on Thu Apr 22, 2010 7:07 am

what Don said

Oil preasure gage is cheep; actually be prepared, your oil preasure may be exceeding 200 or 300 psi. If your gage is not good for it you will ruine the gage. Chances are your oil presure switch is alreasdy hooped. Just watch the gage when you start up the engine and shut it down fast if the gage clocks to the top.

The automotive oil filter can has a burst strenght of 300 psi. you say the gasket is blowing out,
Is the oil filter can getting distorted at all? (Bloated)
Double check the oil fitler instalation!
what brand of oil filter are you using?
M1D
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panelmanrd

Number of posts : 788
Location : kcmo
Age : 57
Registration date : 2009-10-04

Re: Oil Filter seal keeps blowing out

Post by panelmanrd on Thu Apr 22, 2010 4:27 pm

you might check to see it the old gasket is stuck on the block. All the finger indentations on the bottom of the filter puff out
on my motor when it hits 110 lbs.

aecker22

Number of posts : 4
Location : Wisconsin
Registration date : 2010-04-21

Re: Oil Filter seal keeps blowing out

Post by aecker22 on Thu Apr 22, 2010 5:18 pm

m1dadio wrote:what Don said

Oil preasure gage is cheep; actually be prepared, your oil preasure may be exceeding 200 or 300 psi. If your gage is not good for it you will ruine the gage. Chances are your oil presure switch is alreasdy hooped. Just watch the gage when you start up the engine and shut it down fast if the gage clocks to the top.

The automotive oil filter can has a burst strenght of 300 psi. you say the gasket is blowing out,
Is the oil filter can getting distorted at all? (Bloated)
Double check the oil fitler instalation!
what brand of oil filter are you using?
M1D

ok guys, we did some work on the van tonight and the problem is still the same, the seal blows out. It doesn't happen right away either. It is almost like it is building up pressure while we are starting it, we can get it running for about 45 seconds to a minute and it shuts off. After we try to start it again it blows the seal. Nothing is happening to the filter distortion wise, when we start the engine the whole filter will just move away from the engine like its building pressure and pushing it away.

I reached down and felt the valve. It feels like it's working because I can push it in with my finger and it pops back out right away, so it is definitely not stuck. I also double checked for a seal that was left behind and there isn't any, so the filter is sitting tight agains the motor. The filter is a FRAM PH30.

So does this mean the problem is in the oil pump like you said? I don't know what else would cause it to build so much pressure.
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RodStRace

Number of posts : 3022
Location : Chino Valley
Registration date : 2010-01-21

Re: Oil Filter seal keeps blowing out

Post by RodStRace on Thu Apr 22, 2010 5:59 pm

Get a gauge on it to see what you are dealing with.
If you are installing the same filter each time, it may be junk.
Frams have a bad reputation.

If you can't swing a gauge right now, try a WIX.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&q=fram+oil+filter+problems&aq=1&aqi=g10&aql=&oq=fram+oil+&gs_rfai=
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donivan65
Governor
Governor

Number of posts : 11676
Location : San Diego, California
Registration date : 2008-05-12

Re: Oil Filter seal keeps blowing out

Post by donivan65 on Thu Apr 22, 2010 6:13 pm

You need to check the oil pressure,,,,,,CAREFULLY,,,,,,,the pressure tester could blow up in your face if it is too high,,,,,and if the pressure is too high, then you need to take a compression test to see what the rest of the engines condition is,,,,,,,and the patch would be to drop the pan and replace the oil pump,,,,,,,but do the oil pressure,,,,,,If its OK, I would pull the valve cover and see if the oil is getting up to the rocker arms. Or that filter is not sealing right, even though you say it is tight. Someone could of put on a metric thread adapter into your block and the filter gasket is not sealing all the way.
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m1dadio
Chevy Guru

Number of posts : 1738
Location : Victoria B.C.
Registration date : 2008-10-06

Re: Oil Filter seal keeps blowing out

Post by m1dadio on Sat Apr 24, 2010 9:37 am

Now that I'm bouble thinking what I said earlier.

Some oil pumps don't have a presure relief or control, OIl presure is regulated by the "leak down rate" built into the design of the engine, Namely the clearances of all the bearings.

I would get hold of an oil pump or books for your engine and find out if the pump has a relief valve before taking the pan off.

M1D
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donivan65
Governor
Governor

Number of posts : 11676
Location : San Diego, California
Registration date : 2008-05-12

Re: Oil Filter seal keeps blowing out

Post by donivan65 on Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:27 pm

Take a break Michel, you are thinking too hard,,,,,,,you had it right the 1st time,,,,,I tore apart a 6 cylinder oil pump,,,,,,,it has a spring loaded piston that is controlled by the output pressure,,,,,too much pressure and it opens the port between the output and inlet to the gears,,,,like putting it into neutral until the outlet pressure drops and the spring closes the port,,,,,,,,



Guest
Guest

Re: Oil Filter seal keeps blowing out

Post by Guest on Sat Apr 24, 2010 9:41 pm

try an ac filter pf54. couldnt hurt. i would hook up a gauge and ck pressure while cranking, coil unpluged. my 230 runs almost 30 at idle and 45 runnin down the road.
good luck
jeff
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boogieman

Number of posts : 69
Location : New Mexico
Registration date : 2015-10-12

Re: Oil Filter seal keeps blowing out

Post by boogieman on Thu Oct 27, 2016 5:55 pm

Damnit! This just happened to me, wix filter that had been in service for 1500- 2000 miles this summer...popped my harmonic balancer 100 miles from home in august and the vans been sitting, fired it today after some fuel work and flushing cooling system..revved it a bit and pop splewg! Didnt see gauge spike or anything, dark now, gotta investigate in the morning..
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Buddyr

Number of posts : 13
Location : Raymond NH
Registration date : 2015-10-08

Re: Oil Filter seal keeps blowing out

Post by Buddyr on Thu Oct 27, 2016 6:57 pm


This is the Fram filter I am using
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boogieman

Number of posts : 69
Location : New Mexico
Registration date : 2015-10-12

Re: Oil Filter seal keeps blowing out

Post by boogieman on Fri Oct 28, 2016 9:38 am

Doubled up gaskets...what an asshole. Took 2k miles to pop, glad it was in my driveway and i dont have to drop the pan...

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