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BRINGING IT ALL TOGETHER.... A's, G's & E's


3 posters

    throttle body injection?

    benwah
    benwah


    Number of posts : 1135
    Location : the land of broken dreams and shattered hopes CT
    Registration date : 2008-07-05

    throttle body injection? Empty throttle body injection?

    Post by benwah Wed Feb 10, 2010 10:03 am

    Just picked up a low milage 88 Ramcharger. My ol trusty 65 sportsman's 273 has been around the world at least once Razz. Well over 200 thousand. Was told the bottom end was redone at around 130. She's going to need a cluch soon. So now the wheels are turning. Has anyone atempted such a fate? My plan is to yank the 318, freshin it up new oil pump,roller timing chain,freeze plugs ect. Id like to try one of those thumper cams. Can I use a regular MP distributer or do I have to keep the computer controlled unit? I was also thinking of using a non egr intake. And then there's fuel delivery, Will a in-line performance fuel pump do or do I modify the tank for a stock unit?
    RodStRace
    RodStRace


    Number of posts : 3046
    Location : Chino Valley
    Registration date : 2010-01-21

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    Post by RodStRace Thu Feb 11, 2010 10:51 am

    You have to figure out what you want, 88 stock or retrofit to earlier stuff.
    For a stock 88 setup, you need to have a FI pump. This can be on the frame (possible delivery problems, noisy, easier) or in-tank (harder, quieter, easier on pump and will not be as much of a hassle when the tank gets low) and a return line back to the tank. Then you need to wire in the computer (PCM), warning light and all the sensors. It will be set up for EGR, so if you remove that, it will set codes and not run as well. I am not sure if this one has the standard EI dist. or the one that uses the PCM for timing. That type will have a crank sensor on the bellhousing at about 1 O'clock looking forward (top right). Since this is a fairly early EFI, be careful on the cam and other mods that vary from stock.
    If you want to go back to carb and points, swap your old stuff on. I'd upgrade to EI, and update the charging system regulator (needed when going to EI).
    That is right around when they went to the magnum design (I think those were 89 tho), with the different heads, hyd. roller cam and stud mounted rockers instead of the shaft mounts. The magnum intake manifold bolts are at a different angle, so if you plan on changing intakes, fair warning!
    Do your homework and decide before you act. For example, an EFI motor will not have the fuel pump eccentric on the cam gear and probably not have the mechanical pump boss on the front cover. If you go back to carb, you have to plan ahead for that.
    benwah
    benwah


    Number of posts : 1135
    Location : the land of broken dreams and shattered hopes CT
    Registration date : 2008-07-05

    throttle body injection? Empty Re: throttle body injection?

    Post by benwah Fri Feb 12, 2010 4:16 pm

    I've got quite a stash of LA's most up to late 70s. Im a dummy to todays computer smogged crap. But like the idia of not smelling gas in my van, well kinda sorta way.... this is an early efi, still has the pump boss, just blocked. I was really thinking this one over if it was worth the effort. Think I'll stick to sniffin gas and stick to my 4 bl Holly's! Thanks!
    RodStRace
    RodStRace


    Number of posts : 3046
    Location : Chino Valley
    Registration date : 2010-01-21

    throttle body injection? Empty Re: throttle body injection?

    Post by RodStRace Wed Feb 24, 2010 8:12 am

    Sniffing gas can be hazardous! geek
    The earlies have no evap systems. They came in the 70s.
    Lots of people hate smog stuff, but if you want to cut down on the gas fumes, adding an EVAP system will go a long way in fixing that.
    What you need is the following:
    An evap canister. These are sized to the tank and vehicle, but most any should work. I'd grab one from a newer truck with a carb (up to the mid 80s), since a carb puts out more fumes than a FI system. These are usually coffee can sized and plastic, so weight and mounting should not be an issue.
    A sealed gas cap. Ours have vented caps. Don't worry, you will be venting to the cannister, so no vapor lock!
    A carb with a bowl vent fitting. These will have a hose fitting that you can run to the canister too. Holleys usually vent to the air cleaner area.
    This is the main stuff. Now it gets interesting.
    A fuel vapor separator will probably be needed to prevent siphoning fuel from the tank. Pick your brand and look in the yards for something early 70s, before they got this integrated into the fuel tank. This will be the hardest to research, find and install.
    A tee fitting in the vent line of the fuel tank. This must be above the full level!
    Hoses from the fuel tank to the vapor separator then to the cannister, and the carb to the cannister. BTW, activated charcoal is what keeps the vapors in. Most cannisters have where each hose goes cast next to the fittings.
    Now that you have the vapors all collecting in the cannister instead of venting out into your garage, you have to figure out a way to clear them out. This is called purging. Here is where you will have to get creative with what you have available.
    Early systems just had a hose to ported vacuum on the carb. As you can imagine, this could and would vent the vapors all the time, causing problems like hard start hot, variable mixtures, and even flooding. Not good. Some are connected to PCV hoses, also crude. The worst was the first Chryslers; they stored the vapors in the crankcase!
    Later systems started putting solenoids into the hose, blocking it until the engine was running (use ignition RUN position to feed power). Then they held off until the vehicle was moving (requires a speed signal and logic to trigger the solenoid). They even duty cycle them in later years (more computing need).
    So where does this leave the guy who just wants to keep the fumes down and doesn't want a computer?
    I'd suggest getting a purge solenoid and installling in the hose between a ported vacuum port on the carb and the cannister. Connect the power side to an ignition run source and connect the ground side to ground. Now, here comes the part that may make some people squirm. Grab one of those thermal vacuum switches that screw into the intake manifold coolant passages (V8) or head (6) and connect the purge hose through that. Make sure to get a 2 port one. This way, when you start the van, the solenoid is open, but during warmup the thermal switch is closed. No bad vapors messing with your cold operation! When the engine warms up and can take a bit of variable mixture, the switch opens, allowing vapors to be purged when the ported vacuum pulls the vapors out of the cannister. Ported means off idle, so that is not affected. This is similar to what was run in the mid-70s. A good basic system without the early issues or the later computers.
    itruns
    itruns


    Number of posts : 1605
    Location : Chicago, IL
    Registration date : 2008-07-03

    throttle body injection? Empty Re: throttle body injection?

    Post by itruns Fri Feb 26, 2010 9:12 pm

    itruns
    itruns


    Number of posts : 1605
    Location : Chicago, IL
    Registration date : 2008-07-03

    throttle body injection? Empty Re: throttle body injection?

    Post by itruns Sat Mar 06, 2010 9:07 pm

    benwah
    benwah


    Number of posts : 1135
    Location : the land of broken dreams and shattered hopes CT
    Registration date : 2008-07-05

    throttle body injection? Empty Re: throttle body injection?

    Post by benwah Sun Mar 07, 2010 5:47 am

    Not much time for weekend reading, Took my car hauler out of service and is getting an extreme truck make over!
    itruns
    itruns


    Number of posts : 1605
    Location : Chicago, IL
    Registration date : 2008-07-03

    throttle body injection? Empty Re: throttle body injection?

    Post by itruns Sun Mar 07, 2010 7:07 am

    Ooohhhh boy.... Cool
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    throttle body injection? Empty EFI swap

    Post by Guest Thu Mar 11, 2010 7:18 am

    Has anyone done a swap with, say, a 1999 type engine with the bigger intake? I was wondering if it would fit under the dog house. I'd love to be able to hit a remote start and not have to mess with a carb! Thanks, Larry in East China Mi.
    benwah
    benwah


    Number of posts : 1135
    Location : the land of broken dreams and shattered hopes CT
    Registration date : 2008-07-05

    throttle body injection? Empty Re: throttle body injection?

    Post by benwah Mon Mar 15, 2010 8:15 am

    It should fit you might have to use a cold air intake system instead of using the air cleaner up top. I quickly measured whats left of a 93 v6 multiport the intake is around 6". Im not positive but the v8 should be the same.
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    Post by Guest Mon Mar 15, 2010 8:30 am

    Thanks, I appreciate the info. Larry In East China Mi.

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